Second close call at JFK....

**MarkLawrence** · 07-11-2008, 09:37 PM

Another go around causes a second close call at KJFK...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25645239/

[Edit] This must be a slow news day in South Florida - according to our news people that just did a "what's on the news tonight", we are crossing for live information from JFK!! :)

**AirtrafficController** · 07-11-2008, 10:14 PM

Looks like they have eliminated the runway 22L & 13L landing configuration.

**lijk604** · 07-11-2008, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by AirtrafficController

Looks like they have eliminated the runway 22L & 13L landing configuration.

Which is a blessing to us photographers who cant be in two places at once. ;)

**SengaB** · 07-11-2008, 10:26 PM

This is very good news for U.S. if I understand this correctly.
I am sure many pilots that are not used to flying into JFK will be relieved as well.
Since I have been in NY I have missed one aircraft to that 13L/R/22L beast configuration. It will be reasuring that I will never have to deal with it again if this is true.

Senga

**moose135** · 07-11-2008, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by AirtrafficController

Looks like they have eliminated the runway 22L & 13L landing configuration.

I don't think so - from the MSNBC article linked, the FAA spokesperson said:

The FAA ordered new procedures Friday afternoon to change the way takeoffs and landings on perpendicular runways are sequenced, Brown said in an interview with The Associated Press.

The new procedures are designed to ensure "that aircraft of one runway clear out of the path of the other runway before the second flight comes down on the other runway," Brown said. "We've had two events recently and I think we want to make sure the appropriate safety margins are in place."

It sounds like they will still be doing perpendicular landings and take-offs, but they will be changing their timing to avoid potential conflicts.

**njgtr82** · 07-11-2008, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by moose135

Originally Posted by AirtrafficController

Looks like they have eliminated the runway 22L & 13L landing configuration.

I don't think so - from the MSNBC article linked, the FAA spokesperson said:

The FAA ordered new procedures Friday afternoon to change the way takeoffs and landings on perpendicular runways are sequenced, Brown said in an interview with The Associated Press.

The new procedures are designed to ensure "that aircraft of one runway clear out of the path of the other runway before the second flight comes down on the other runway," Brown said. "We've had two events recently and I think we want to make sure the appropriate safety margins are in place."

It sounds like they will still be doing perpendicular landings and take-offs, but they will be changing their timing to avoid potential conflicts.

Moose is exactly right. It will now be a more staggered with the departures. The 13R departure will likely not start takeoff roll until the 22 lands or is far enough out that it would not be a factor if they do go around. But this will cause even more departure delays so I'm sure you will more often see an all 22L and R config or 13L and R.

**cancidas** · 07-12-2008, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by lijk604

Originally Posted by AirtrafficController

Looks like they have eliminated the runway 22L & 13L landing configuration.

Which is a blessing to us photographers who cant be in two places at once. ;)

but will only add additional delays. the traffic managment folk can't be happy witht hat one.

**PhilDernerJr** · 07-12-2008, 05:18 AM

I'm trying to visualize these close calls in my head. As I'm understanding it, it seems as though a 22L landing aircraft comes close to the aircraft departing on 13L, correct?

**MarkLawrence** · 07-12-2008, 06:26 AM

On the close calls I've read about - they have been on go around - so I think you are right Phil - 22/R goes around - 13L depature - close call.

**njgtr82** · 07-12-2008, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by MarkLawrence

On the close calls I've read about - they have been on go around - so I think you are right Phil - 22/R goes around - 13L depature - close call.

It's 13R departures isn't it? I just read an article stating that they in fact have terminted the intersecting runway ops for now.
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/jfk-has-2n ... 0709990001

**MarkLawrence** · 07-12-2008, 07:43 AM

I meant to put 13R - too early in the morning - not enough coffee yet! :)

**PhilDernerJr** · 07-12-2008, 09:03 AM

Woudln't it be the case for 13L, too? I would think 13L departures would be more threatening to 22L arrival go-arounds than 13R departures, as 13R deps would be much farther southwest and banking right, away from the go-around, which I understand makes a left upon go-around.

**bonanzabucks** · 07-12-2008, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by njgtr82

Originally Posted by MarkLawrence

On the close calls I've read about - they have been on go around - so I think you are right Phil - 22/R goes around - 13L depature - close call.

It's 13R departures isn't it? I just read an article stating that they in fact have terminted the intersecting runway ops for now.
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/jfk-has-2n ... 0709990001

As of right now, 13L and 22L are still being used for landings. I guess they're only changing the spacing.

**Matt Molnar** · 07-13-2008, 01:05 AM

I blame the A-Rod/Madonna affair for distracting the controllers.

**moose135** · 07-13-2008, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Phil D.

Woudln't it be the case for 13L, too? I would think 13L departures would be more threatening to 22L arrival go-arounds than 13R departures, as 13R deps would be much farther southwest and banking right, away from the go-around, which I understand makes a left upon go-around.

I don't think they use 13L for departures very much - they may sequence some in, but from what I remember hearing on the radio, they usually use 13R for departures and 13L for arrivals. And from experience spotting at Bayswater, 13R departures can be turned left or right for enroute spacing.