Two More ex-AA/TW 757s for DL

[ChrisW]

Delta has secured leases on two additional ex-AA/TW 757-200ERs bringing the total number of aircraft to 17. Whoever was negotiating with the lessor for these two frames backed out on the deal and DL jumped on the opportunity. Details to follow.

Aircraft on property thus far: N702TW, N703TW, N704X, N706TW, N707TW, N709TW, N710TW, N712TW, N713TW, and N721TW. N713TW is currently receiving its new interior (BusinessElite + AVOD in every seat) at Singapore Technologies Aerospace in Mobile, AL at KBFM. Projected project completion date for this bird is early January with all aircraft completed by mid-September.

Once completed, these ex-AA/TW birds will more than likely be the best transatlantic product in the sky offered by any U.S. carrier.

Can we say Oslo? Warsaw? Casablanca?

[ChrisW]

Just loaded into the schedule: ATL-SNN with 757-200ER equipment effective May 2008. That sure didn't take them long to find a route for the two extra birds! SNN, here I come! LOL! :borat:

[PhilDernerJr]

Wow, Delta is taking on so many. Great news.

Chris, you'll love SNN. Let me know if you have any questions beforehand (PM, Email or Spotting Planning).

[T-Bird76]

Once completed, these ex-AA/TW birds will more than likely be the best transatlantic product in the sky offered by any U.S. carrier.

Unless I'm flying EOS a narrow body would not be the ideal choice to fly across the Atlantic. The only reason the airlines are using 757s is because there's no other alternative right now. 767-300s are too big for these point to point markets, 767-200s are gone from the fleets and are way too costly to operate now. It won't be until the 787-8 is on the market that you'll see a superior product in the 210 seat range with the economics the airlines are looking for, the 757 is purely a stop gap remedy right now.

Now I'm not saying the upgrades Delta made won't make the ride more comfortable, they surely will unlike the rat trap 757s US is using across the pond but I think given the choice most customers will prefer a widebody Boeing or Airbus across the pond. BTW where the heck is SNN?

[PhilDernerJr]

Shannon, Ireland.

Why do you think the 757 is no good for it? Do you just mean from a passenger comfort perspective or other?

The plane can run it pretty well, and I think that passenger-wise, it all depends on what the airline offers, and it can be just as good as any other aircraft type.

[ChrisW]

767-300ERs too big? Not exactly. Many routes the DL 757s are showing up on next year (FRA, CDG) are flights that for years have supported 767-300ERs and in some cases the 777-200ER*. And not all new routes being launched next year are on 757s - take ATL-ARN for instance (767ER). The 767ERs currently flying these routes are being sent down to Africa and points further eastward (AMM comes to mind). St. Petersberg and Helsinki are also being looked at.

*The reasoning behind removing the 777 from European flights was the launch of DXB, TLV, and ICN flights.

[T-Bird76]

Shannon, Ireland.

Why do you think the 757 is no good for it? Do you just mean from a passenger comfort perspective or other?

The plane can run it pretty well, and I think that passenger-wise, it all depends on what the airline offers, and it can be just as good as any other aircraft type.

Phil define "well" that's a very general term with little detail. Narrow bodies are not the preferred method of Transatlantic travel, they never have been in terms of passenger comfort otherwise you would have seen them across the Atlantic much sooner.

Its no secret there's a gap right now in the 200 seat market. Why do you think Boeing is building a 787 in that seat range? The 757 is nothing more then a stop gap until these planes are on the market, that's not my opinion that's fact that's been reported on by many smart folks in the industry. The features DAL have put on the 757s are great and as I said help make the ride more comfortable but the fact is a narrow body restricts passenger comfort and movement. Give the customer a choice between a widebody and a narrow body the customer is going to choose the widebody hands down.

Delta's pilot’s years ago said Delta should have invested in more long range aircraft vs. the CRJ's. That's one of the main reasons they need the 757s on these routes because they don't have the fleet they need for their continued intl expansion. Another reason why they are being so aggressive with the 777s orders, they need them. I bet these 757s come off intl duty once DAL ramps up its long range fleet.

[PhilDernerJr]

I agree that there's a gap in the 200-seat market. Though the 757 might nothave been designed for transatlantic flights, and was not used much before the present to do so, if the plane can pull it off and the pax are comfy, why not?

I agree that the 787's arrival will probably remove the 757 from the transatlantic role, but in the mean time, I don't think the 757 is a bad choice or that there's a problem with it being used in this way.

As for the passengers' choice, I don't think most passengers know what they are on or what's normal or not. They just want to get to where they're going at a fair price in a comfortable seat.

[cancidas]

WAW would be interesting, and i might even try DL out next time i go back home.

[T-Bird76]

I agree that there's a gap in the 200-seat market. Though the 757 might nothave been designed for transatlantic flights, and was not used much before the present to do so, if the plane can pull it off and the pax are comfy, why not?

I agree that the 787's arrival will probably remove the 757 from the transatlantic role, but in the mean time, I don't think the 757 is a bad choice or that there's a problem with it being used in this way.

As for the passengers' choice, I don't think most passengers know what they are on or what's normal or not. They just want to get to where they're going at a fair price in a comfortable seat.

Comfy? 3x3 single aisle for 7 to 8 hours is not comfy, I've done it. Based on that one picture you have of you sleeping....that doesn't look comfy bro ;) It comes down to there is no other choice right now and since the 75 can fill the roll it’s the best the airlines can do. There are a number of negatives though to both the traveler and the airline using reduced capacity planes.

1. Less F class seats for Elites. If I'm traveling and know I can get an upgrade I'm going to choose the airline that has the most inventory so my chances are greater that I'll sit upfront vs. in the back. The 757 reduces those chances vs. larger aircraft. This opinion isn't me being an elite snob it's a shared concern of frequent travelers and the airlines know it. Look what US did with the A321s and how it outraged some.

2. Reduced cargo, the 757 can't hold as much cargo as larger planes. We all know how valuable cargo is to an airlines bottom line.

3. Far less room to mingle around, during meal time you’re pretty much trapped in your seat. Also lines for the lavs are much longer then on widebodies because of the single aisle.

I'm not saying the 757 is a poor plane, its prob the most versatile plane Boeing made being its used for such a variety of work but its just not the ideal way I or I'm sure a good number of people would want to travel to Europe. However it’s what we got right now and it will have to due. I do however think its great DAL is trying to upgrade the narrow body product vs. the likes of AA and US who also fly the 757 across the Atlantic. Phil if you ever flew and American 757 you'd know exactly what I'm saying. I flew one for 7 hours to ANC and I wanted to blow my head off....crowded aisles, long lav lines, and terrible seating. A widebody would have made the flight 180 degrees more comfortable.

[PhilDernerJr]

Some very valid points.

[ChrisW]

I'd like to point out that transatlantic service started en masse with narrowbody aircraft. The plane was called the Boeing 707.

1. DL does not upgrade elites on international flights.

2. This is true.

As for the 757s being a stop-gap - I think you're right. I talked with our chief pilot yesterday and got some insight into the future from him. DL is currently in limbo over placing a major 787 order and will be investing in its relatively young (approx. 10 years-old) 767-300ER fleet. We've got orders for 30 winglet kits for these birds and they are even considering giving the cockpits an update by installing the Large Format Display system (the system ABX Air is now using). Basically the focus as far as new a/c acquisitions right now is finding more 777s for the ULH operations they've got on the drawing boards. If DL had 30 777s right now we'd be flying to places like SYD, SIN, KUL, DEL, DOH, BAH and HKG yesterday.

By the way, we just loaded yet ANOTHER 757-200ER flight into the schedule - ATL-EDI!

[T-Bird76]

I'd like to point out that transatlantic service started en masse with narrowbody aircraft. The plane was called the Boeing 707.

1. DL does not upgrade elites on international flights.

Thank you Capt Obvious...hehe ;) Can I point out that the next Intercontinental (747) jet and all that have followed have been widebody...hehe ;) Lets not count the DC-8, that thing was doomed from the start.

As for the second point....another reason I don't fly Delta. (If I had the stirs the pot smiley I'd use it.)

[ChrisW]

Lies!
Everyone: Tommy is flying Delta for New Years!

[MarkLawrence]

Thank goodness for light back and forth banter to make the day a whole lot more interesting!! :borat: :borat: