Good article in todays Daily News with an interview with the Liberty pilot who was on the deck at W30St and witnessed
the crash and called out to his buddy in vain. He echoes the sentiment many others voiced: pilots unwilling or having no clue to calling out their position in the corridor the majority fixed wing, weekend warriors.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/200 ... able_.html
Oh they were ALL out today sticking their faces in front of the cameras. Thankfully Bloomberg is distancing himself from them. In factOriginally Posted by BigAppleCoder
at HIS news conference he went out of the way saying how important it is for the city to allow helicopters to operate. The tour ships bring in revenue and the corporate ships are important to the big companies based in the city.
Anyone remember the last mid-air in NYC between a copter and plane?
July 22, 1983
http://www.nypdangels.com/cop/cop.php?id=90
There was a huge media outcry after that also.
Ut_4B8omtXM
My video with Liberty Helicopter Tours on 17 April 2009. Once again, I believe my pilot was Jeremy Clarke, although it is somewhat difficult to be sure due to the side-view & sunglasses ..but the hair, nose, and shaved beard seem to match. If this was indeed my pilot, once again, my prayers go out to his family. It was my first time in a helicopter and I never once felt nervous or uncomfortable.
[EDIT] I messaged a friend of Mr. Clarke, and he confirms this is him flying my helicopter flight :(
Christos
Video from a boat of the rescue attempts right after the crash.
Email me anytime at [email protected].
Michael, awesome video tribute my friend, very proffesional with beautiful videography in perfect light, a fitting tribute to the late Jeremy Clarke.
Regards
LGA777
Is it just me or is the whole media and politicians totally biased against the helicopters and the helicopter tour industry?
And they make the pilot of the Piper to be some type of saint and tragic figure. Oh he was a good family man. Oh he
was a humanitarian using his plane for Angel Flight missions. Oh yeah, he smashed into the copter FROM BEHIND!! C'mon lets be fair here. Some of the articles in the News and Post about the copters really piss me off!!
Any excuse for all the two-bit local pols to get some air time. Luckily they don't have much power to do anything.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem.
All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control.
I trust you are not in too much distress. —Captain Eric Moody, British Airways Flight 9
Yea I get this feeling too, not sure why. Tourism is a huge source of revenue for NYC and those tours are popular and create jobs! Isn't that what we want? I wouldn't be in a rush to make the Piper pilot out to be anything because by all witness accounts it sure looks like he shoulders a majority of the fault.Is it just me or is the whole media and politicians totally biased against the helicopters and the helicopter tour industry?
And they make the pilot of the Piper to be some type of saint and tragic figure. Oh he was a good family man. Oh he
was a humanitarian using his plane for Angel Flight missions. Oh yeah, he smashed into the copter FROM BEHIND!! C'mon lets be fair here. Some of the articles in the News and Post about the copters really piss me off!!
'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol
As much as I hate to do this at this point, but seeing how others are not only speculating but going so far as to assign blame, I need to respond. As one who has flown the corridor both for pleasure and for a fixed wing Pt 135 operation, I have been following this tragedy closely and try to put myself in the situation in order to learn from it. Looking at the data available thus far, I don't see how one can put the blame on one pilot over the other when the actions of both pilots have presented links in the "accident chain". As the saying goes, break any link in the chain and the accident doesn't happen.
Link #1 is the Piper Pilots chosen path to enter the Hudson corridor. This NYT graphic based on the radar returns shows the route flown and altitude of both aircraft:
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/ ... ready.html
It is known that the Piper departed TEB Runway 19 straight out and was given the option to go southwest or over the river. He chose the river and was advised to contact EWR tower. This contact never took place. It is possible that he tried to make contact but did not get a response right away, or decided against contacting them. Whatever the reason it is clear that EWR Class D was coming up on him fast and he made the choice to steer clear as can be seen by the curve in his ground track toward the Hudson and then more southerly. This unfortunately placed him in the undesireable position of entering it at a 30-40 degree cut which in a low wing will effectively blocks out most of whatever is to the left (upriver) and below you. When departing TEB to the south I prefer to ask for a left crosswind departure and make a bee-line to the river. What that does is place you further up river (middle of central park) where the helo's rarely go, and allows you to enter the corridor at a 90 degree cut. You then can clearly scan up/down and left/right before entering. You also have been punched out by TEB by this point and are free to monitor CTAF on 123.05.
Link #2 is the Helicopter pilots choice of altitude. For fixed wing aircraft the regs specify the minimum altitude must be 1000' AGL over a congested area, else 500' AGL is the minimum (although no where is 'congested area' defined), and in any event the minimum must allow the pilot to reach a safe point of landing in the event of an engine failure. It is for this reason that 99% of fixed wing pilots will fly the route at 1000 to 1100' which of course is the ceiling of the corridor. Helicopter regs do not have these kinds of limits and they are practicaly free to fly at whatever altitude they choose. The graphic shows the collision occured at 1100'. The Piper pilot climbed to 1100' as was expected of him. Why was the helicopter at 1100'? Surely a tour pilot who flies the route numerous times a day would be familiar with the fixed wing altitude restrictions and would steer clear of them by flying much lower? Even if he was at 800' he would be legal and the accident wouldn't have happened.
I last flew the corrider in the spring. My student who passed his PPL checkride a few months before wisely called me to go with him on the hudson tour and instruct him on it. While fully legal to do it on his own he had no desire to. On that trip I used the system and it does work. I announced my positions and was impressed to hear the tour pilots replying directly to my calls. That is not something that generally happens on your typical UNICOM/CTAF. I would announce my intentions and get a response such as "Helo has the low wing Alarus in sight over the statue at 1000', we'll be orbiting the lady at 700' " I replied in kind. I have no doubt that both pilots in this tragic case were good at what they do. It just highlights how the most mundain decisions can have tragic results and how we all have to remember to be proactive.
Peter B.
Commercial ASEL/MEL Instrument Airplane CFI
N214LF
“Passengers should NEVER leave babies in an infant carrier while it goes through the X-ray machine"
--TSA.GOV website
Peter, excellent input. Thanks for sharing.
What you explained makes the airspace seem even more congested and challenging than at least I had originally realized.
Do you think that is what is currently in place should remain? What ammendments, if any, would you make?
Email me anytime at [email protected].
What if the helo was already up there long before the Piper entered the airspace? I appreciate your credentials but is sure seems like you have a little bias toward fixed wing. Whether consciously or not. We will have to wait awhile for the NTSB's report but from all witness accounts it sure seemed like the pilot of the Piper was not aware of the traffic as he approached. Sure many like to mention the chain of event angle as a way to deflect blame but I think if we dissect every air disaster whether big or small it always comes down to one major error. The river is very congested and something has to change as far as controlling the air traffic but if you don't have a tower, don't have ATC controlling the situation you are at the mercy of the people flying and their ability to do the things that have to be done. Like control the aircraft, and keep visual serparation.Why was the helicopter at 1100'? Surely a tour pilot who flies the route numerous times a day would be familiar with the fixed wing altitude restrictions and would steer clear of them by flying much lower? Even if he was at 800' he would be legal and the accident wouldn't have happened.
'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol
The helo had just taken off, so probably not very long.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem.
All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control.
I trust you are not in too much distress. —Captain Eric Moody, British Airways Flight 9
Tru but in an uncontrolled congested space in a aircraft like the Saratoga (which has that longer nose than a Cherokee) you are blind to everything just below the nose. I am not trying to beat on the pilot of the piper. I just feel from what has been released so far he let his guard down just a little and didn't make a note of who was in the airspace for that second or two and when your flying a much faster aircraft you would be on that helo quick. Just my take on what happened by the info and pics that are out. In a crazy way this almost is the same as PSA 182. A much faster moving aircraft overtaking a slower one after losing sight of it. Only difference is that the Cessna deviated off the course it should have been on but goes to show that by being below the 727 (basically a blindspot) how something can happen so fast without chance of recovery.The helo had just taken off, so probably not very long.
'My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person doing something unfamous.' Andy Warhol
If safety along the corridor can be "improved" - as determined by those "expert" in such matters - and with a good consensus of the participants, I suppose that would fine. I am a bit skeptical though of strict impositions placed on people in particular and the economy in general, of solutions that purport to "fix" such a low rate of mortality of those transiting the corridor, and even more unrealistically, those on the ground - in Manhattan, New Jersey, (and unbelievably now, even Staten Island according to one politician).
West Nile Virus, the Hudson River corridor etc etc.. these are not the big threats to our (believe it or not) transient lives.
These things rank probably somewhere below the inherent dangers of staircases, ice skating rinks, climbing trees to save cats, etc...
Just my 2 cents,
Tom
"Keep 'em Flying"
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks