JetBlue Pilot and Bradley Tower during Snowstorm 10/2011

[NIKV69]

That was my thought as well, John - why on earth do you send all your aircraft into the heart of the storm, when there were better alternatives available? Yes, Ryan, I've flown transport category jets, and I would have (and have had) come up with better plans than diverting into a storm to find a place to land. They made a bad choice in sending their aircraft to BDL, and once there, abandoned their responsibility to the passengers.

One has nothing to do with the other. Sure the diversion was bad but whatever the case the captain got his souls on the ground safe and he is trying to either get them to their ultimate destination or somewhere with working facilities till he can leave to do so.

This wasn't ExpressJet in Rochester, this was a major airline screwing up big time in not adequately preparing and executing a plan for dealing with adverse conditions.

Of course it isn't but it's showing an alarming trend started at JFK on that Valentines night. Whether you are a big airline or small one it is the same equation and needs to change.

Firse off, no one abandoned ANYONE on that night. Second off, anyone who ACTUALLY knows what they are talking about (I.E. Pilots, controllers, etc) will tell you, the only option was BDL at the point where the decisions had to be made. Boston Center called NY TRACON and everyone else that would listen and essentially told them to eff off because they would not accept any more divert traffic into BOS. Know your facts. ;) Some of those planes were going to Boston.

Whether you divert to Osh Kosh I could care less. Airfields and airlines needs to have something in place to make sure pax get treated a bit better. It's not rocket science and it's not even close to being a hard thing or costly at all..

[gonzalu]

Remember the days when air travel was considered luxurious? Domestic travel within the US is far from it. I have rarely felt genuinely pampered domestically. Consistently, when flying to Europe on a foreign carrier, it has been much more pampering the feeling. Not necessarily ACTUALLY more pampered, just felt better about my trip from the point of view of how I was treated from counter to baggage collection on the other side.

Last flight to MCO on Conti, the counter agent was actually calling her supervisor a bitch! I am NOT kidding... it was shocking that it went on... All passengers were literally in shock .. the agen clearly had pent up issues she needed to work out at the unemployment line, not in front of pax. The rest of the flight had the tone set!

[moose135]

Firse off, no one abandoned ANYONE on that night...

Listen to the recording linked in Matt's post - right around the 3:45 minute mark, the B6 captain asks Ground for assistance saying "We can't seem to get any help from our own company..."

And I still don't believe that BDL was the only airport that was available - it may have seemed "convenient" since B6 has operations there, but there were airports open and not effected by the weather that would have been more suitable.

[lijk604]

Firse off, no one abandoned ANYONE on that night. Second off, anyone who ACTUALLY knows what they are talking about (I.E. Pilots, controllers, etc) will tell you, the only option was BDL at the point where the decisions had to be made. Boston Center called NY TRACON and everyone else that would listen and essentially told them to eff off because they would not accept any more divert traffic into BOS. Know your facts. ;) Some of those planes were going to Boston.

And I'll state once again...not one aircraft, not jetBlue, United, Continental, American, US Airways, etc...diverted to Islip. As a dispatcher, when bad weather is forecasted...such as a major snowstorm which this was, we choose TWO alternates. Yes one may be farther away, however, it is chosen so that the pilots don't have to stress that both choices are just as bad as the original.

This storm, like 95% of storms in this area traveled from the south, north-eastward up the coast. Once it hit the NY Area, where is it heading? Connecticut! So why any dispatcher would choose an airport in CT as it's planned diversion station baffles me. The forecast had this as a quick-moving, heavy precipitation dumping storm, and they were 100% spot on.

At this point, let's just hope that the lesson was learned and better choices are made going forward.

[NIKV69]

Listen to the recording linked in Matt's post - right around the 3:45 minute mark, the B6 captain asks Ground for assistance saying "We can't seem to get any help from our own company..."

And I still don't believe that BDL was the only airport that was available - it may have seemed "convenient" since B6 has operations there, but there were airports open and not effected by the weather that would have been more suitable.

Yea I mean after the Valentine debacle at JFK which B6 got crucified in the press and for the most part came out not too damaged they can't let this happen. It should have been a call to action. Jeez I mean I don't care if David Neeleman himself had to get his butt there with a snow blower to clear a path for those people you do it. Leaders lead, not make excuses.

Listening to that recording I also remember him thanking airport people for doing much more than his "own people" did. I was blown away after that.

You screw up once and say to me. Sorry I screwed up. Fine, but you have the knowledge of something you need to correct. Second time is sheer imcompetence and epic fail.

[PhilDernerJr]

And I still don't believe that BDL was the only airport that was available - it may have seemed "convenient" since B6 has operations there, but there were airports open and not effected by the weather that would have been more suitable.

I do wonder about this, and the questions that I'd like to ask are things I can't find out unless I spoke to the pilot and/or dispatcher of the flight. Did they have enough fuel to get elsewhere? did they contact the station in advance? Would ANY of their trouble have happened if the power didn't go out? What was the forecast when the flight was released? What was the METAR for BDL and JFK at the time of diversion?

These would all shed light on what went on. It may have been the right decision until the unforeseen kicked in.

Although the pilot's comments ARE concerning and upsetting, that they seemed abandoned. I wonder if that was by their own ground crew due to the weather conditions or if system operations was overwhelmed. Again, many questions.

Also, many airlines simply wait too long to divert. I think dispatchers will be quick to tell the Captain to hold and see if they can wait it out, which may actually be a mistake when the condition is a snowstorm. Snow doesn't pass through an area like a summer t-storm, and holding only means that you are letting other planes land at your alternate before you....which means you'll be on the ground longer waiting to get gas and other services. It's often better to divert asap, gas up and then get out of there before the other aircraft follow suit.

[PhilDernerJr]

I'm also curious as to what other airlines that diverted were experiencing. Remember, 20 or more planes diverted into BDL that day, and I didn't hear this from anyone else. I just don't drop blame on B6, as I want to learn more about what happened first.

[PhilDernerJr]

WSJ's thorough investigation: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...sj_share_tweet

[hiss srq]

"Then, a diverted Lufthansa Airbus A380 super-jumbo plane from Frankfurt had to park on one of Logan's longest runways, shutting it down. With 13 diverted planes—along with regularly scheduled flights—stacking up, Massport issued an unusual notice telling airlines to call for permission before sending Logan additional diversions.
"We're no good to anyone if we gridlock the airport," Mr. Freni said. The airport never closed and would have taken flights with emergencies, Mr. Freni said. "This was as serious as it gets."
Airline dispatchers got the go-away notice and passed it on to pilots. Officials at Delta, American and jetBlue all say they had New York-bound planes headed for refueling in Boston that instead had to land at Bradley International Airport near Hartford, Conn. In all, 29 aircraft diverted to Hartford in a span of just two hours. All intended to "gas-and-go," and five made it out. But conditions quickly deteriorated.
Bradley's fuel facility suffered electrical power failures, airlines say, which crippled refueling. Power went out in the international-arrivals building, so the jet-bridge and baggage belts didn't work. Luggage had to be carried manually to passengers. Mobile stairs—commandeered from jetBlue—were used to get passengers off planes."

In the end, all six flights tried to get people off at the three-hour deadline, but some planes were blocked by other jets and couldn't move to the terminal, jetBlue said. Moreover, jetBlue never got to use the portable staircase it lined up to deplane passengers because it had been nabbed by the airport to get people off the international flights.

Read the details