Monarch 757-200 JFK Pics

[NIKV69]

I'm not bringing any type of war Nick. Not with you, and not with anyone else. I'm just calling a spade, a spade. I'm cool with alot of people here. I've found many friends here. And yes, there are a few who I don't get on well with but that's life. My issue is as I stated above man

Again something that doesn't need to be brought into this thread. I am not here to discuss how some like and don't each other. I am not trying to pick fights with Senga, just asking him to look out for us once in a while.

It doesn't take much digging most times to find out for one's self what exactly is coming in. I look while watching Islanders highlights (or really lowlights lol), you can look whilst watching Tiger sink a putt. Someone else can look whilst the Jets eat another bag of ****.

It seems you have a crystal ball kenny which is nice. I have no issue finding inbound aircraft but you need to look at the whole picture. Mario for example, a very adept spotter yet hates to sit in front of a computer for long periods of time. I would imagine with 2 kids now and being a mod here and on anet he isn't about to stare at fighttrackers and for him seeing a thread is his best chance to get info like Senga has on rare inbounds. Remember not everyone behaves in the way you perceive them or has the time to do so.

There's more than enough backbiting **** drama on this site to go around.

Well I don't partake in this, again if you had issues with people here please keep it out of the forum. I prefer to be face to face about it. Senga knows this and we have had many a heated debate personally. I don't backstab people behind scenes and don't need it here. I brought up the fact that I felt Senga could be a little more helpful with info he is more inclined to have.

[wunaladreamin]

Again something that doesn't need to be brought into this thread. I am not here to discuss how some like and don't each other. I am not trying to pick fights with Senga, just asking him to look out for us once in a while.

But you're the one who initially brought it up!! God forbid I defend myself here.

Kenny it sure sounds like your bringing a war you have had with members here into this discussion.

It seems you have a crystal ball kenny which is nice. I have no issue finding inbound aircraft but you need to look at the whole picture. Mario for example, a very adept spotter yet hates to sit in front of a computer for long periods of time. I would imagine with 2 kids now and being a mod here and on anet he isn't about to stare at fighttrackers and for him seeing a thread is his best chance to get info like Senga has on rare inbounds. Remember not everyone behaves in the way you perceive them or has the time to do so.

I'm not saying "stare at the flight trackers", that much effort is simply not needed 99% of the time. Just 2 minutes out of the day before you go out with the camera is all that's needed. Your exaggeration is plain ridiculous bro. I could sit and look at flight trackers all day, and as I'm sure it's the same for many others, after a while it gets boring as **** and it's needless. Furthermore spending hours on it is a waste considering all the free internet porns out there. I guess some people take initiative and some don't. Oh and a crystal ball is on my Christmas list.

Well I don't partake in this, again if you had issues with people here please keep it out of the forum. I prefer to be face to face about it. Senga knows this and we have had many a heated debate personally. I don't backstab people behind scenes and don't need it here. I brought up the fact that I felt Senga could be a little more helpful with info he is more inclined to have.

Well in this thread you are Nick. And again, my issues with whoever else have been dealt with but you were the one who brought it up. We can debate this face to face anytime (especially over a beer), but if anything, instead of calling Senga out personally in an open forum, you could have dealt with your issues with him either in pm, on the phone, or in person (as you claim to prefer doing).

Now it's Miller time.

[NIKV69]

But you're the one who initially brought it up!! God forbid I defend myself here.

No, I asked Senga directly why he didn't post a head up about the Monarch. Your the one who started in with the

But why pass things along to a group of people who in recent months will take their shots and still bite you in the ass for stupid ****,

Totally off topic and does have underlying meaning. A meaning I have no involvement with and sesemed to suggest you would withold info out of apathy.

I'm not saying "stare at the flight trackers", that much effort is simply not needed 99% of the time. Just 2 minutes out of the day before you go out with the camera is all that's needed. Your exaggeration is plain ridiculous bro. I could sit and look at flight trackers all day, and as I'm sure it's the same for many others, after a while it gets boring as **** and it's needless. Furthermore spending hours on it is a waste considering all the free internet porns out there. I guess some people take initiative and some don't. Oh and a crystal ball is on my Christmas list

No exaggeration, ask Mario yourself. As much as you hate to admit it not everyone who spots is adept at flight tracking. What about the noobs we constantly get here? You can't pigeonhole every member here into your mold as someone who can check a site for 2 mins and know whats coming in. It's just not true.

Well in this thread you are Nick.

Where? LOL, I told Senga directly and will do the same when I see him either in person or on AIM. I don't talk behind people's backs. I tell it like it is in the open.

And again, my issues with whoever else have been dealt with but you were the one who brought it up

Kenny I hope your not serious. Please go back and read what you typed. You first introduced the nonsense about biting in the ass or whatever not me.

We can debate this face to face anytime

If you are referring to your battles with other members here why would I do that? I was not involved and really don't care. You could do that with the proper parties over that beer.

instead of calling Senga out personally in an open forum, you could have dealt with your issues with him either in pm, on the phone, or in person (as you claim to prefer doing).

I have on this and many other issues. As you know Senga isn't the most accessible person and we mostly air our differences and move on. I felt it would be good for the ones here that don't talk to him and feel the same as I do to be aired out here. It's a spotting and planning review forum and Senga is a big boy. He doesn't need his battles fought by you.

[Tom_Turner]

I think this thread is getting (a little bit) misguided.

I'll try to address the issues one at a time...

This forum is not all about local photographers; plenty of lurkers and participants that don't shoot at all, and those that never leave their local airports (FRG, or LGA or whatever) to shoot. Its fine if Senga posts those shots - its for everyone to enjoy, not for other photographers to be "hating on him" and "here's what you all missed" in a bad way. He is taking his time to share those images here.... He could just go back to uploading at JetPhotos otherwise if its not appreciated or keep them on a file or in a shoebox.

Senga has contributed enormously to this hobby, and in this area. People would very hard pressed to find United Nations General Assembly threads regarding VIP aircraft movements prior to a particular "slide show" at Art's house a few years back. That information, though not secret, was close to being unknown overall, and certainly by many.

Senga has taken more out-of-towners out to our local airports than most people here I would say. How did that happen? They contacted him and asked. That's all.

What is the last catastrophic catch Senga made at JFK? Can someone tell me? He caught the Austrian Philharmonic A340 when Peter Unmuth posted it was coming here... guess what? No one else went out for it. Senga is catching things at other airports most people here do not go out for - plain and simple. A Nimrod at Stewart, A BAC-111 at Teterboro, Turkish Air Force at McGuire AFB, Israeli Air Force at Dover AFB, the Guppy in Philly, an Indian bizjet at West Chester. .

He has been criticized, rightly or wrongly, for guerrilla photography enough already - why would he invite a bunch of folks out to catch stuff on weekdays, in places that don't have observation decks and spotting maps? When he is going to have to go the extra mile to get the shots most people are unwilling to do?

This is a serious hobby for Senga, and not a past-time. When he goes to JFK, he brings two scanners, to monitor the approaches. Not a lawn-chair. Its not about parking and socializing and "oh shucks, it went to the wrong runway".

Senga is not monitoring if Wunala Dreaming is coming in or the latest Skyteam livery. So he can't post those here for people to read. But when Yemen 747-SP was coming, he did. You can read all about it in a search on this site, where he was thanked for doing so.

And, there is another myth here as well. That Senga is an absolute spotting god that knows everything that is coming and going in a 200 mile radius. This is simply not true. Senga goes out and gets the shots, and he researches alot of information on flights, but some here might be surprised on how many "tips" Senga gets from OTHER SPOTTERS (easily plural) who share with him, precisely because he has shared with THEM, information on subjects he knows they are excited about.

I've read a lot of good stuff on this site about aircraft coming a week or so into the future but not so much otherwise. Phil can start a thread with a sticky and call it "Imminent Arrivals" or such and that might be a good idea. I think he can even link Flytecomm right onto the site if he'd like. It makes little sense to go search Flytecomm - and search about 8 different local airports... lets see.. JFK, LGA, EWR, TEB, WRI, ACY, SWF, FRG, and then report back what might be of interest here - just in case someone might be interested...when they can look it up themselves. And he is supposed to do this all year? Or, otherwise not post his shots or risk ridicule? That's ludicrous.

I really don't understand this Monarch issue. I was at Bayswater at 1:30pm and Sergio and Omar etc. knew Monarch was coming. So what is the problem? Its Senga's fault for the weather or runway usage?

Many times I don't think everyone realizes how much has already been given. "Spotting maps", what camera and lens to buy, flight trackers, etc.



Tom

[wunaladreamin]

No, I asked Senga directly why he didn't post a head up about the Monarch. Your the one who started in with the

But why pass things along to a group of people who in recent months will take their shots and still bite you in the ass for stupid ****,

Totally off topic and does have underlying meaning. A meaning I have no involvement with and sesemed to suggest you would withold info out of apathy.

No exaggeration, ask Mario yourself. As much as you hate to admit it not everyone who spots is adept at flight tracking. What about the noobs we constantly get here? You can't pigeonhole every member here into your mold as someone who can check a site for 2 mins and know whats coming in. It's just not true.

Where? LOL, I told Senga directly and will do the same when I see him either in person or on AIM. I don't talk behind people's backs. I tell it like it is in the open.

Kenny I hope your not serious. Please go back and read what you typed. You first introduced the nonsense about biting in the ass or whatever not me.

If you are referring to your battles with other members here why would I do that? I was not involved and really don't care. You could do that with the proper parties over that beer.

I have on this and many other issues. As you know Senga isn't the most accessible person and we mostly air our differences and move on. I felt it would be good for the ones here that don't talk to him and feel the same as I do to be aired out here. It's a spotting and planning review forum and Senga is a big boy. He doesn't need his battles fought by you.

Jesus with the quotes man.

OK from the top...

1. Have you been on the forum lately? I never meant anything with any "battle" I may have had with anyone here in the past. Don't get it twisted. What I'm saying, since we need things spelled out, is take a look around. With all the stupid spats going on in numerous threads here, why would anyone be inclined to lend a helping hand. Some of these threads make us all look like a bunch of hacks and I can see where a "noob" wouldn't feel so welcomed. Perhaps a reason that there are far more "lurkers" than "posters"?

2. I wasn't trying to bring Mario into this or anything but if he or any other person needs help with trackers, all one needs to is ask, no? Wouldn't helping someone help themself be far more beneficial to both parties?

3. I don't talk behind people's backs either. If you want to know my opinion, all you have to do is ask. But like I said, if you took such exception to his withholding information then calling him out in a public forum isn't going to help matters much man. Tact. Look it up.

4. See 1.

5. Again see 1.

6. You brought me into this further smearing a dude who just does his thing. IMO you're a decent dude, but God forbid someone disagree with you and you're making it hard for me to get drunk with all this quoting.

[T-Bird76]

Now it's Miller time.

Miller??? good god why not just piss in a mug and call it a day? :lol: :lol:

[wunaladreamin]

Now it's Miller time.

Miller??? good god why not just piss in a mug and call it a day? :lol: :lol:

LOL hey, it ain't natty lights! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[NIKV69]

and you're making it hard for me to get drunk with all this quoting.

Sorry Kenny, I will just go on to Tom's post. Have one for me but none of that Miller crap.

This forum is not all about local photographers; plenty of lurkers and participants that don't shoot at all, and those that never leave their local airports (FRG, or LGA or whatever) to shoot. Its fine if Senga posts those shots - its for everyone to enjoy, not for other photographers to be "hating on him" and "here's what you all missed" in a bad way. He is taking his time to share those images here.... He could just go back to uploading at JetPhotos otherwise if its not appreciated or keep them on a file or in a shoebox.

Absolutely right Tom, but as lurkers and non participants there are just as many noobs and other spotters that would love a heads up once in a while. I never said he had to do it every time. If everyone here would rather nobody shared anything and did their own thing fine but I always heard spotting was about the people and friends. IMO a friend would give another friend a heads up if he knew something out of the ordinary was coming. Trust me I know this is a lost cause with Senga. I would just think if the shoe was on the other foot and through my connection with the Sands I knew their Tristar was coming to JFK.(Which I don't think he has in their colors AND doesn't appear on the trackers) I would give a heads up here but that is just me. Maybe I should take the bunker mentaliaty and just go get it myself and then post the pics here. I would be willing to bet most of the site would be a little upset with me.

What is the last catastrophic catch Senga made at JFK? Can someone tell me? He caught the Austrian Philharmonic A340 when Peter Unmuth posted it was coming here... guess what? No one else went out for it. Senga is catching things at other airports most people here do not go out for - plain and simple. A Nimrod at Stewart, A BAC-111 at Teterboro, Turkish Air Force at McGuire AFB, Israeli Air Force at Dover AFB, the Guppy in Philly, an Indian bizjet at West Chester. .

Tom you make a good point but you are talking from the point of view of someone with vast experience. There are many here that Habitat or the new B6 colors would make their whole day. Never mind some of the stuff Senga posts. These people would love a post once in a while and a chance to get that stuff from someone who has that info more on a regular basis than they do.

He has been criticized, rightly or wrongly, for guerrilla photography enough already - why would he invite a bunch of folks out to catch stuff on weekdays, in places that don't have observation decks and spotting maps? When he is going to have to go the extra mile to get the shots most people are unwilling to do?

I never said he had to invite people out. Nor am I saying he has to shoot with anyone. Just post the info. After that whomever is on their own as to getting it.

This is a serious hobby for Senga, and not a past-time. When he goes to JFK, he brings two scanners, to monitor the approaches. Not a lawn-chair. Its not about parking and socializing and "oh shucks, it went to the wrong runway".

It's a serious hobby for many others as well. When I am chasing something good if Jakub or someone else with another radio is with me we have both going on different tracon and approach. Again we are not asking him to join us. Just share some info.

And he is supposed to do this all year? Or, otherwise not post his shots or risk ridicule? That's ludicrous.

No, I think he can qualify which airframe would be worthy of an individual post once in a while. Again I am not saying He has to be our official flight tracker. Just give us a heads up once in a while.

I really don't understand this Monarch issue. I was at Bayswater at 1:30pm and Sergio and Omar etc. knew Monarch was coming. So what is the problem? Its Senga's fault for the weather or runway usage

Just making an observation, besides the forum needed some life, been a little stale lately.

[Tom_Turner]

I hear you Nick.

I think it would be GREAT if I could log into NYCAv and see that "imminent special arrivals" thread at the top of Spotting Planning and Review. (Meaning 2 - 72 hours or so) If we could get everyone used to using it, it would be an invaluable resource.

And that would be a lot easier than guessing who might be interested or available to spot that day (or out of town) and letting them know one at a time or by chain telephone and emails. The way it stands right now, someone could say, "hey, why didn't you let me know that was coming in" and a response like, "well, I posted it on NYCAv" wouldn't be that helpful.

Like you said though, there would have to be tolerance for a lot of repeated stuff like Habitat. Personally, I would love to know when all the special US schemes were coming to LGA. But I don't want to pester Ron for that information and it would probably be silly for him to post those repeatedly all year long in separate threads otherwise. But in an Imminent Arrivals thread, that stuff could just be dropped in there from time to time by everyone that gets an advanced notice and has a few minutes to spare.

Tom

[mirrodie]

Mario for example, a very adept spotter yet hates to sit in front of a computer for long periods of time. I would imagine with 2 kids now and being a mod here and on anet he isn't about to stare at fighttrackers and for him seeing a thread is his best chance to get info like Senga has on rare inbounds.

First, thank you NIck for the compliment. Much appreciated. NIck is totally on about me. My daily computer log includes my email, Anet, NYCA and FOxnews. But I dont have the time or inclination to learn a flight tracker and have to access that too. AS I was typing my original response, my son was climbing all over me and pulling me away from the computer.

I am not here to discuss how some like and don't each other.

For the record, I personally don't dislike anyone. Life is too short and to hate someone is just too sapping of one's energy. 8) And in light of this week, I am thankful to call you guys friends.

Now it's Miller time.

No exaggeration, ask Mario yourself. As much as you hate to admit it not everyone who spots is adept at flight tracking.

SERiously, when it comes to tracking, Im not only a noob, I'm a total boob!

He is taking his time to share those images here

Tom is totally right too. Senga's yearly VIP thread that I think we all look forward to.

I think it would be GREAT if I could log into NYCAv and see that "imminent special arrivals" thread at the top of Spotting Planning and Review. (Meaning 2 - 72 hours or so) If we could get everyone used to using it, it would be an invaluable resource.

I have to say, that is a great idea. While Nick's original point was valid and so was Ken's, perhaps the BEST aspect of this thread is what good may come of it.

[PhilDernerJr]

Before I get to the main topic of discussion, I just wanted to say one thing. Curse you all for making me rant! :twisted:

Have you been on the forum lately? ...take a look around. With all the stupid spats going on in numerous threads here, why would anyone be inclined to lend a helping hand. Some of these threads make us all look like a bunch of hacks and I can see where a "noob" wouldn't feel so welcomed. Perhaps a reason that there are far more "lurkers" than "posters"?

First, this is a big place and conflict WILL happen on occasion. Second, I see a LOT of helping out going on, daily.

Otherwise, I've not seen anything as of late that would apply to the above quote. Months ago I made it a goal to improve the way that new people are welcomed, and until this thread, with the exception of ONE instance, I don't know of anyone who felt unwelcome here, especially because of "n00b" stuff. Kenny, if you see something in others threads that might make people feel unwelcome, please let me know. You're my boy and I know you have referenced this quite a few times in the past and I'd love your help to make this a better place if there's a problem I'm not seeing.

It's the only thing I take personally because I spend way too much of my personal time, as do people like Matt, trying to build a community for people to enjoy...whether they are friends or not, lurker or members...we're all plane geeks at the end of the day. If we're wasting our time, if I myself am failing, let me know.

Now, back to the larger topic at hand.

First, if you guys want a sticky “Inbounds” thread, raise a couple hands and I’ll make it happen. The JFK Daily Report can work as that, or we can have a new one. Up to you guys.

It looks like some people were upset, not at Senga, but just at this kind of situation in general. It seems like people let out some steam and said things they were wanting to say for a while, and I hope some of you feel better now that it's been aired and that friends like Senga are not driven away.

The most important thing to realize is that no one has an obligation to anyone else on this forum. People are allowed to come and go from this site as they please, and go to any spotting location and leave just the same. Senga owes no one squat. I'm sorry that he is in the middle of this topic.

Has there been a time when a wild plane came in and I wish I knew? Yes. Has Senga helped me get planes I never would have gotten otherwise? Yes as well.

But even though I might have wanted a photo that he got and I was clueless on it, I get a feeling of excitement when I see that SOMEONE was able to get it. Because let’s face it…if Senga wasn’t here, dozens and dozens of planes would go in and out of JFK unnoticed by anyone. We’d never see the photos and just wouldn’t get to enjoy them. We’d be ignorant and not even capable of being angry if we didn’t know what we were missing.

If Senga didn't post it, I'd have no idea that a Dutch KC-10 came into JFK. But I am really happy I got to see the photo. Seeing stuff like that ALSO makes me want to go out and shoot more.

So though we might get frustrated that we missed an amazing plane, we can’t take it out on Senga. It’s not his fault we missed it and we can't hold him accountable. It's too negative, and not why we're here.

If after all this you still don’t get it, please re-read this post by george:

I'm fairly new here and to spotting, and to be totally honest I don't know half the stuff that most people on here know. I met Sergio sunday and when he was walking with me he was telling me what planes were coming in and to be honest I had no idea of some of the planes he was referring to ( after seeing his pictures though I did learn which ones he meant) For me I love taking pictures of planes so if I sit somewhere and something cool comes by its great.. if not then oh well i still had fun taking pictures. One moment i wont ever forget is when Airforce one came in.. I had no idea she was coming in at that time and then there she was. I was like a little kid at Christmas... Most times I go to woodmere and just sit there during lunch and see what comes in and most times it seems to be just Jetblue flying in.. but I still have a good time going there. I'm still trying to learn all the spots for JFK (and for the life of me I can't figure out where exactly the mounds are! :oops: )

I just really enjoy coming here and learning more about spotting and the planes that come into here. If i find out that a plane is coming in and I can get to a spot to see it then great... if not then at least i know I can come on here to see the great shots everyone else got..

Looks like aviation enthusiasm to me. Remember that? Good times.

This shouldn't be a fight or a mod-fest. Please keep the peace from here on out, guys.

[NIKV69]

I think it would be GREAT if I could log into NYCAv and see that "imminent special arrivals" thread at the top of Spotting Planning and Review. (Meaning 2 - 72 hours or so) If we could get everyone used to using it, it would be an invaluable resource

Very good idea Tom!

Like you said though, there would have to be tolerance for a lot of repeated stuff like Habitat. Personally, I would love to know when all the special US schemes were coming to LGA. But I don't want to pester Ron for that information and it would probably be silly for him to post those repeatedly all year long in separate threads otherwise. But in an Imminent Arrivals thread, that stuff could just be dropped in there from time to time by everyone that gets an advanced notice and has a few minutes to spare.

Well it would be volunutary for people to post any knowledge of things coming in but as I said before many of us can figure out what would be a very rare catch and what would not. Personally I would take too much info as opposed to not enough any time.

and FOxnews

You radical righty you!

First, if you guys want a sticky “Inbounds” thread, raise a couple hands and I’ll make it happen. The JFK Daily Report can work as that, or we can have a new one. Up to you guys.

I like it, I don't think the daily JFK thread grabs people's attention as good as a inbound thread would.

It looks like some people were upset, not at Senga, but just at this kind of situation in general. It seems like people let out some steam and said things they were wanting to say for a while, and I hope some of you feel better now that it's been aired and that friends like Senga are not driven away.

I spoke to Senga and he is fine, he understood where I was coming from and I apoligized for something I said that was personal and not to do with my point. We have this discussions and it's nothing new.

So though we might get frustrated that we missed an amazing plane, we can’t take it out on Senga. It’s not his fault we missed it and we can't hold him accountable. It's too negative, and not why we're here.

That is not exactly the point I was making. I was there and didn't shoot it because there was no light. I was merely saying that for someone that consistently knows of the rarest birds coming could simply post a heads up once in a while. It seemed some users seized the chance to open a dialogue about feelings about other users here. Which had no merit and was not needed.

[kc2aqg]

Perhaps one solution to the general problem raised here would be a sticky on the various flight trackers and ACARS tools and how to use them. This way it would be like a spotting guide, a quick reference people could look up to learn a little more about the intricacies of tracking these rare flights & aircraft. Just a thought...

And congrats to Senga on yet another great catch, when Kenny told me it was coming in, I was madd jealous!

[wunaladreamin]

Mario, I've got a solution for you bro...we'll teach the yute to use the flight trackers and he can look stuff up for you!!! Kids got to have chores man LOL! And for "boob"...I like boobs so it's all good!

I'm in favor of an "imminent arrivals" thread as well. It would be a great addition to the site IMO.

Nick, with all the time spent chopping quotes and all, you can certainly affored a minute for flightaware! :lol: :lol: :lol: And iffin you've got a beef with Miller, what brews would you suggest (if you say Bud or Corona, we're going to have to brawl).

Phil, I understand all the time and effort you and Matt have put into the site. And I've sensed your frustration every time we've talked about the whole deal. What I said was not meant to be a slap in your face or Matt's face, and if you or Matt took offense, I apologize. I'll give you a call later on in the week and we'll talk more later.

That said, I'm still a tad drunk from last night and I love you all (platonically, of course). :borat:

[NIKV69]

Nick, with all the time spent chopping quotes and all, you can certainly affored a minute for flightaware! And iffin you've got a beef with Miller, what brews would you suggest (if you say Bud or Corona, we're going to have to brawl).

Oh I use flighttrackers all the time, I wasn't speaking for myself. I was saying that a percentage of the locals could use Senga's input once in a while. As for Beer I actually think Miller is ok, Bud is decent only in tall necks, Corona is a chick beer etc. Actually I like Amstel since you get nice taste and a real light low calorie beer.