Published Material Supporting Our Photographic Rights

[shamrock838]

Greetings,

[Moderator - if this is in the wrong forum --- please move and advise accordingly.]

I'm looking to locate and print authoritative online material that supports our right to photograph aircraft from public property.

I may never need to show the authorities this stuff if confronted ... but just having it handy would be a source of PPOM (personal peace of mind).

I understand that airports are considered private property and we have to obey the authorities there. But what if we're on public property and we're still challenged? Would having the type of material I'm speaking of make a difference ... or must we still "cease and desist" even if we're within our rights? Thanks.

Mike (shamrock838)

[nwafan20]

The only thing you will ever need: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

There is also this one: http://www.kantor.com/blog/Legal-Rights ... aphers.pdf

[cancidas]

Greetings,

[Moderator - if this is in the wrong forum --- please move and advise accordingly.]

I'm looking to locate and print authoritative online material that supports our right to photograph aircraft from public property.

I may never need to show the authorities this stuff if confronted ... but just having it handy would be a source of PPOM (personal peace of mind).

I understand that airports are considered private property and we have to obey the authorities there. But what if we're on public property and we're still challenged? Would having the type of material I'm speaking of make a difference ... or must we still "cease and desist" even if we're within our rights? Thanks.

Mike (shamrock838)

i can't understand why you want to carry this around? if you were to be confronted, pulling this out and sticking it in a cops face would only make matters worse for you. do you think that they will not kick you out if they see some lawyer wrote something on the matter? you say it's for piece of mind but i can't help but think there is something else you want to do with it.

know this, if you're doing nothing wrong the police have no reason to bother you. if they do come by, asnwer thier questions and they'll leave you be.

[shamrock838]

The only thing you will ever need: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

There is also this one: http://www.kantor.com/blog/Legal-Rights ... aphers.pdf

NWAFAN20,

Thanks for the "Kantor." I already had the "Krages" ... thanks to you as I recall. Having these resources at hand allows *me* to know better where *I* stand in such matters. It also gives me some sense of security ... if you'll continue reading below ...

I'm not very articulate orally since I've stuttered since early childhood. This is compounded by an inherited condition called Attention Deficit Disorder. The combination of the two can have an unwanted combined effect when I'm on my own in the field and am called upon to account for my actions ... however innocent they may seem to me. So ... even when I'm legally in the right ... I feel at a distinct disadvantage when having to justify myself orally to others.

I recall photographing in the NYC subway system last fall when a group of about *five* non-NYPD security types confronted me in a midtown station and asked what I was doing. [They may have been tipped off by a passerby who remembered "If you see something, say something." In this instance a young woman sat down next to me ... saw my camera ... gasped ... and quickly departed] I told the security guy in charge ... as best as I could ... how I was indulging in my hobby of photography. Well ... that didn't "fly" at all. Possibly he wanted to make an example of me to his crew ... as part of an impromptu field training exercise?

Well ... I happened to have photocopies of material I previously downloaded from the interest saying that a recent move to ban photography in the subway system had been overturned and it was perfectly OK for me to do what I was doing.

I showed these to the guy in charge who was caught totally off guard. I guess he hadn't expected someone to be prepared to defend his rights with documented proof. He carefully studied the material and his whole attitude changed dramatically.

I then asked him if I was doing anything illegal here. Well, he didn't have a ready reply to that but I saw he was thinking of how to regain the initiative.

Finally he semi-demanded why I happened to have this material so handy in the first place. That must have seemed suspicious to him. I replied to the effect ... "in case someone in authority needed to have proof that I wasn't doing anything illegal." [I thought to myself ... what would have happened if I had *not* had this backup material on hand?]

I offered to show him my I.D. but he waved it off. Exasperated ... he finally requested that I put away my camera. Realizing how he had to save face in front of his people ... I simply said "sure" and I did. But I stayed there until they finally moved away.

Getting back to the aviation aspect of all this ... I realize that having the Kantor and Krages material will be of no avail to me on airport property.

But in public areas ... there may well be some security types ... and many civilians as well ... who are not well versed in our rights to photograph aircraft, etc. So ... yes ... having this stuff in my bag does serve a practical purpose ... even though I may never have occasion to use it.

And yes ... a polite, respectful ... and *informed* ... demeanor on our part is always essential when stopped in the pursuit of our honorable hobby. Thanks.

Mike (shamrock838)

P S - To others reading this reply ...
recently I may have appeared somewhat paranoid in these forums re security matters. Well ... I hope the foregoing will better illustrate where I'm coming from and why.

[nwafan20]

I completely understand.

I keep a copy of this in my bag just as backup in case anyone tries to say what I am doing is illegal. I will kindly point out that it is in fact lawful. It can't hurt to have proof that it is indeed a lawful act.