Been having a discussion on twitter about this, now bringing to the forums.
http://upgrd.com/matthew/thrown-off-...-pictures.html
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Been having a discussion on twitter about this, now bringing to the forums.
http://upgrd.com/matthew/thrown-off-...-pictures.html
This is the world we live in now... Welcome to the 21st century, a world of constant BS...
This is ridiculous. Good read, thanks Eric.
There has got to me more to this story.
"I want you to understand why I was taking pictures. I hope you didn't think I was terrorist''
This guy is a journalist and he utters that line ? Seriously ?
Even in the old days there were some words that you do not say in the vicinity of an airport:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf3bw8KEZ44
Eric, what did you and Jason do now? lol :tongue:
I think you're absolutely right about this. As presented, this seems like a gross overreaction on the part of the flight crew (both on the flight deck and in the cabin), especially seeing that it was targeted towards a premium cabin passenger. One would think that it should take far more than what was presented here to be denied carriage.Quote:
Originally Posted by yankees368
Another thought that came to mind, is that some carriers can convene a "committee" in situations like this. Such a committee would consist of the captain, the gate agent, and uninvolved pilot from another flight, and a few others (I'm forgetting who). The purpose is to guide the captain in situations like these, and while the captain retains the final say, its designed to move the decision making process out of the airplane. I'm pretty sure that DL has such a system, I'm wondering if UA has something similar.
All I can say is the written policy regarding photography confirms that for United Airlines, the terrorists have won. I've never seen such an outrageous policy. If followed to the letter, you'd better hope your kid doesn't pull out his Kodak Easyshare at the beginning of the family vacation. As to whether this guy's account EXACTLY represents what happened, I've learned not to read too much into he said/she said testimonials. Then again, someone leaving a comment on his blog claimed to be on the flight and saw what happened, and completely supported the blooger's account. Was that made up? Who knows.
In 2010, I was taking pictures aboard a Delta MD90 headed to MSP, from the back of the cabin looking towards the front. I snapped a few shots because I thought their configuration was very unique(it was before they reconfigured the cabin to their own standards after getting them from China Southern). Then I sat back down. About 2 minutes later, an FA came by and leaned over and asked why I was taking pictures. I simply said "I'm an aviation photographer. This is my card." She said that a passenger had asked her what I was doing. I hadn't even thought that my behavior would have triggered such a response(remember, because I don't buy into the 'this is the world we live in now' crapola). Regardless of my opinion, I apologized and told her she was right, and that I should have let her or one of the other FA's know in advance that I wanted to get some cabin shots. She was actually quite nice about it. I was left alone for the rest of the flight. Once we landed, I apologized again to her, then to the captain as well, and gave him one of my cards. I'm not sure why this gentleman's situation went so badly- maybe I got lucky, or maybe he got VERY unlucky.
If fully true and complete, that's pretty bad on UA's part. I'd like to hear UA's side of the story.
Or a non-bias eye-witness of the entire scenario...either side of this story is going to be weighted in favor of the person telling their account.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerslice
Does seem a little off that they would toss him off the flight for something like this. I know a UA FA. I'll ask her if she heard anything through the grapevine but to treat a elite flyer like that is stupid. My friend has flown more than this guy on UA and he takes iPhone pics of Biz and 1st class when he flies and never had an issue. Unless he caught a bad seed on a bad day and the Captain bought it just to get the flight moving.
From the comments under the story (however truthful they may be), it seems like a few people were on the same flight, and they appear to side with the author's recollection of events.
William is right ..... the terrorists have succeeded and created paranoia with regards to what use to be a pleasing thing ....... called photography. The second someone sees an individual point a camera at something we are a suspect. "If you see something, say something!" Everyone is seeing something to say the least. During the times that I have flown and taken pictures during the flight not one time I was asked to stop. The writer in my view used some poor choice of wording and that probably triggered the FA. Did the FA overreact, probably because of paranoia. It does sicken me that this is the world we live in now. I guess the thing to do now, is when you board a flight is to introduce yourself as a avaiation photographer (which we all are in my opinion) and ask the FA is it okay to take photo's during the flight. Providing a business card may help to get a positive response from the FA. Otherwise, put away your camera, sit back, rent some headphones, and listen to some music and enjoy the flight!
UA's policy about photography is weird. It starts by saying you can't shoot other pax or crew. Then equipment. Then unless you have permission from UA can't shoot at all? Confusing.
United's response to Kris V.'s post on their Facebook wall (http://www.facebook.com/unitedairlines) really clarifies it (not):Quote:
Originally Posted by NIKV69
We do allow photography...but...not when a FA is having a bad day or wants to make up some fake FAA rule.Quote:
We implemented a photography policy several years ago and it published in our inflight magazine. We do allow photography but for reasons of service and security, our crew may need to restrict photography onboard and this policy supports their ability to do so.
Also, we have read the blog post and reached out to the customer to fully understand his perspective of what happened onboard. ^SQ
I browed the page and loved the pic of the wing from a passenger. Pretty ironic that he was allowed to take pics in the cabin. What a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary
The best is their Instagram account (http://instagram.com/united), where it invites pax to "share your travel inspiration with #united". I think I'll take a photo of their photo policy page and post it to their Instagram account, next time I fly with them. As long as I can do so without compromising their "service and security", of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by NIKV69
Is taking a picture of their inflight magazine, considered part of their equipment? :cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary
Hmmm, I have been taking pictures on UNITED planes for years, in full view of the crew, even back in the galley, up and down the main aisle... never an issue. I think I should carry my ID next time :tongue:
Terrorist!Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalu
I am not denying I terrorize my fellow pax with my D3 + 70-200mm f/2.8 ... on the last flight aboard UA from EWR to LAS, I take out my camera and the couple next to me almost gagged... I quickly put on my Used Car Salesman face and act and by the end of the flight, I had pics of them posing with the crew in the aisle!! So, a little diplomacy can go a long way...
Now, have them try and stop all pax with a camera phone from taking a shot!! All flights would be 90% empty!!!
So does that mean the other 9% carry Nikons with a 70-200mm lens and the other 1% carry Canons with a 100-400mm lens?
My friend lives on UA flights and said he has taken pics in biz and FC with his iPhone and point and shoot and never had one issue. Could be someone needs some training.
Maybe I shouldn't have said that word - I hope Phil doesn't think I'm a threat...Quote:
Originally Posted by moose135
;-)
I can understand if you're taking too many photos of passengers or focusing too much at the cockpit door but that is a very vague policy....Quote:
Originally Posted by NIKV69
''We implemented a photography policy several years ago and it published in our inflight magazine. We do allow photography but for reasons of service and security, our crew may need to restrict photography onboard and this policy supports their ability to do so.
So basically its up to the flight attendants discretion. But like I said earlier the guy screwed up with the words he used to explain what he was doing....
Maybe these UA flight attendants moonlight as FJC Security employees........NO PHOTOGRAPHY ALLOWED!!Quote:
Originally Posted by NIKV69
Using the word terrorist, whether it was after 9/11 or not, was not a smart choice - even if used in a calm manner. That was a mistake. Still, I don't think the simple use of the word should be enough to get you kicked off the airplane.
I take pics on almost every flight I take too...and usually with my 70-200. The only time it's ever been a problem was when I was asked to turn it off as an electronic device. That being said, I rarely do cabin shots in flight because it generates attention. And frankly a shot of the interior isn't worth the potential headache I might get from a well-meaning pax who thinks I'm scoping the place out and reports me to the crew, or an FA who over-reacts.
A few years ago I was flying JFK-ATL on a DL 767-300ER. I managed to get upgraded and it was an international configured bird, so I was pretty stoked. This was right after I got my D90, so I decided to grab some shots of the BE cabin and then a few out my window of the engine & Terminal 3 when one of the FA's approached me saying it was policy not to allow any photography of the ramp or facilities at JFK and that I had to put the camera away. She said this was a JFK-only policy. I politely put the camera away, full well knowing she was full of $hit. But when you're onboard, they're in charge, and you certainly don't want to learn that the hard way getting kicked off the flight before it leaves or getting met by security when you land. I've learned over the years that when the FA says to put a camera away or turn something off, just do it and contest it later when you're on the ground and it doesn't matter anymore. Nothing is that important to argue.
I'll fully agree that his use of the word "terrorist" was not a smart move. In fact, I'm willing to bet that if he hadn't gone back to try to justify his actions to the FA, he probably would have been able to fly no problem. It doesn't excuse the FA's behavior at all, she clearly went over the top to get him kicked off the flight. There's a reason the airlines have the term HVC - it stands for High Value Customer - as in the customers you don't want to piss off because they're a good chunk of your revenue base.
I hope United properly addresses the situation for this gentlemen, it definitely sucks.
Yea I spoke to my friend who flies for UA. She is going to keep her ears open but said that was an asinine thing to say. Still if his account is accurate not enough to get him booted.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerslice
I am always taking pictures with my iPhone on any flight I take, any airport I end up in. I also do videos whenever I get the chance. Only once have I been called out on either, and the F/A was a gentleman about it, so I stopped. Other than that, most don't care, and this was totally uncalled for.