http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1253119
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What would have been the point? They weren't in the right orbit, nor equip to dock with the ISS. And there was no way to get rescue up to them.
Was likely better to not get them worried and hold your breath for the best then have them dreading something that couldn't be helped.
You crazy? Those are professionals and really good engineers, pilots, etc... If they had some info maybe they could have done SOMETHING about it... there is always that little chance if any... so No, that [is] the point... What IF one of them HAD the answer to survive? Not telling guarantees their fate.. .telling at least gives them a chance... and going down fighting is better than not. All but one of the crew was military and I bet they don;t like going down without a fighting chance... heck, are there any parachutes on the shuttle? Open a door and jump... anything!!
That story was so depressing. With all our technology and know how I can't understand why more wasn't tried. No matter what I think those astronauts deserved better. Futile or not.
You're all speaking under the assumption that they knew the damage was major....they didn't. The above news story was based on a WHAT IF scenario, IF they knew it was likely they would die in advance.
Did you not read the first line of the article the OP posted?Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalu
Quote:
Even if they’d known how badly space shuttle Columbia was damaged, there was likely nothing NASA officials could have done to save her seven doomed astronauts.
Call me crazy all you want, you see it right there in black and white from the engineers themselves.
Quote:
With the shuttle already hurtling high above the Earth , Hale said NASA mission operations chief John Harpold told him, “There is nothing we can do.”“If it has been damaged, it’s probably better not to know. I think the crew would rather not know,” he quoted Harpold as saying.
Oh so you think that makes me change my opinion? That person engineer or not, is thinking just like you... an outsider firmly planted on Earth safe and sound... Coward!
Tell them... they deserve to know. I'd want to know... wonder how a poll of Military folks in a similar situation would turn out.
In the History of NASA, the Pilots have never been too happy with the Engineers and their way of thinking... remember the Window incident? Geesh!
Actually, using your own logic about an outsider, you THINK you'd want to know. If someone told you that you would for sure be dead within 'x' amount of time-and that amount of time would be about a week or two, your thinking would probably be completely different.Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalu
But, like me, you're an outsider. You've never been told that you're going to for sure die within a couple weeks at most-and you would be doing so far from family who is abruptly being left behind. You have no idea if you'd be able to perform your job as expected or if you'd have a complete breakdown. NO ONE knows until that time comes. How someone answers in a poll has no basis for how it would turn out in reality.
Also, as an outsider, you're raging and second guessing the men who have devoted most of their lives to this very thing-including flying into space themselves. (CAPCOM?) Mission control isn't a bunch of idiots, the only reason Apollo 13 made it back was because of those engineers you're bashing and every crew that has ever flown into space wouldn't have managed without them. So, if they made that choice I certainly would not second guess it. If you want to write the backbone of the manned space program off as a bunch of untrustworthy fools, that's your choice. But I'm not going to agree with it. Ever.
It's "aren't" and you contradict yourself... enough said. I am done with you... you will argue just to argue, so have your fun justifying something you have no clue about... I guess you sleep well at night. Also ignorant comments like KNOWING that I have never been told some tragic news or what my life is or has been is, well, ignorant.
Uh, I'm not the one who started with the throwing out personal insults simply because someone had a different point of view. You have some SERIOUS anger issues, dude. I'm sorry if you really can't handle someone not shutting up and agreeing with you. I really am.Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalu
This may come as a shock, but you're not the sole source of authority in the world, especially when it comes to managing a manned space flight. You do NOT know more than the people who made that choice. You do NOT know the plans they had in place for such an event occurring, and you sure as heck don't know exactly what discussions transpired in the room. You're basically being an armchair flight director.
And as for 'arguing for the sake of arguing'. I gave an opinion, you came in and insulted me, then began to bash the people of mission control. Say whatever you want about me, but I can't sit by and let you attack some of the brightest and hardest working people in the country who aren't here to defend themselves.
And THAT is how I can go to bed with a clear conscience and sleep at night. Someday, I can just hope that you're able to learn how to disagree with someone without resorting to attacks and insults.
Yes Perriwen, Manny is a very angry person. I think he needs to listen to more Taylor Swift and less Lil Wayne. You both bring up good points (once you sort through the pissing match) but I do also think if they knew the extent of the damage, there wouldn't be much that could be done other than, say, an emergency docking at the ISS logistics permitting and scrambling as best they could another ship to bring them home, and who even know if such an idea was even logistically possible.
Engineers? They couldn't even grasp the concept that rubber and sub freezing temps don't mix so good.Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalu
There was an article that discussed both of those (the ISS and the other shuttle), but ultimately both options were seen as unreachable. Here's the article for your reading:Quote:
Originally Posted by wunaladreamin
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3077581/ns.../#.URB08qV9J8F
The problem is [you] not me... you're a condescending little coward and NEVER EVER participate in anything other than self gratifying posts, you're annoying and live your life through the real experiences of others. Have you ever experienced real fear? I doubt it... anyway, until you have, don't go judging others and what they would or wouldn't do.
So, what have you actually contributed here or anywhere for that matter?
...
You know what? I am sorry. I apologize for my behavior towards you... I don't know you and should not be judging you. I retract anything I ever said to you! Let me grow up a bit and act more like an adult.
Cheers!
I accept your apology with a grain of salt in light of the snide, childish insults you included in your post just before it. Time will tell how legit that apology is. (I apologize, but I am skeptical when the apology and insults appear in the same post..)
As for what I've contributed to anywhere?
I've spent many days sleeping on an old mattress out in the hot Louisiana heat in a relief camp following hurricane Katrina, then waking up at the crack of dawn to help supply people with what they needed.
I've worked in tick-infested forests clearing acres upon acres of trees to construct pastures for an equine therapy program-by hand.
I've scrubbed floors, prepared meals for the homeless, planted crops, harvested crops, and given large sacrifices without asking for anything in return.
I've worked for NOTHING expect the gratitude of those I was serving.
I've built houses, and seen the houses destroyed rather quickly when the next major storm hit.
I've saved lives.
I'm going to just lay out this disclaimer. This is not aimed at one particular person. I do not require your approval, I do not seek your positive opinion. How you react to me is up to you. If you can't do it without the personal attacks, it isn't going to bother me one bit. It's your reputation. I'm just going to continue posting on the relevant topics. And on that note now that the disclaimer is out there, I'm done with the personal discussions. This is the final time I will address personal comments on this forum. Hopefully the apology was heartfelt and this issue is put to rest. Because I frankly don't like arguing. Discussing other opinions, yes. Childish arguing-no. I come to these forums to discuss aviation. Not get into school yard fights. Nor do I hold grudges. By this time next week, chances are I won't even remember the argument ever even happened.
Cheers Perriwen, once again, my sincere and genuine apologies for all I have said to you. No need to apologize to me as you have done nothing wrong. No need to be paranoid, take it at face value.
Thank you.
It's the Taylor Swift isn't it...Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalu
You're welcome. Let's just start over, yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalu
Every astronaut that goes up is fully aware that unforseen circumstances can end their life in the hostile environment of launch/orbit/reentry. They leave their homes for the launch pad knowing it could be the last time they see their loved ones(police and other high-risk occupations do the same). That said, they are still human beings and if they had been told of what happened(provided that an accurate assessment had been conducted), I'm sure they would have LOVED the opportunity to tell fate to suck it and figure that problem out, and return home safely. The folks on the ground didn't have the, we'll call it 'motivation', that the folks on Columbia would have had to do this. And I'm surprised that they didn't have the NASA equivalent of 'fix-a-flat' onboard for these sorts of problems, knowing the heat shield tiles were absolutely critical for safe reentry, but I'm not a NASA guy so that's as ignorant as I'm willing to get.
Al Haynes knew things were pretty bad when his DC-10 lost all hydraulics. But he didn't spend the last minutes of Flight 232 paraylzed by fear or doom- he and the other crew worked their asses off to troubleshoot that thing back to Earth as safely as they could. That is the strength of what human resolve can accomplish, and I don't put it past anybody to pull off what seems to be the impossible.
This topic is getting locked for obvious reasons. The arguments has gotten out of hand and I don't think it can be recovered if I deleted the violating threads (which make up a majority of the thread).
Play nice guys.