Just got a report of a minor collision on taxi way. Plane now being towed to gate 5 of Terminal one to de-board passengers. Sounds like it was outbound.
Anyone have any further?
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Just got a report of a minor collision on taxi way. Plane now being towed to gate 5 of Terminal one to de-board passengers. Sounds like it was outbound.
Anyone have any further?
Hearing that it was an Air France A-380 that struck a DL Connection aircraft while taxing, rumor A-380 severed tail off DL Connection !
Article coming...
Ouch....David and Goliath....this time sounds like Goliath won!
Well hurry up. I have VIPs waiting for a report.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil D.
Apparently there was a CNN reporter on the plane. They don't have much but what was originally reported.
Now a Delta flight is coming in with steering problems. 22R. Not a good night for Delta..
For I guess about the next hour, FOX 5 has their helicopter over JFK
http://www.myfoxny.com/subindex/video/skyfoxhd
EDIT: video just went dark, should be back soon though
They also had an MD-80 make an emergency landing tonight in RDU while flying JFK-FLL due to "electrical odor."Quote:
Originally Posted by emshighway
Here's our story re the A380 in case anyone missed it: Air France Airbus A380 Clips Smaller Delta Jet at Kennedy Airport in New York
In the video it looks really bad... man that was a serious smack!!! wow!
JFK Airport Management Office: Telephone Rings... "Hello, this is the manager"
Voice on the other end: "Uhhhh, boss? We gonna need bigger taxiways"
Dude, that A380 just layed out the CRJ. Surprised no one on the CRJ was injured.
ATC audio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjuCI2yAVD8
It was an eventful night. Didnt get much sleep after that incident for sure
Newsday article with a rather familiar image... http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york...hurt-1.2813326
They can call this Smackdown at JFK. Glad no one was injured, that was quite a wack.
Flew 007 last year to LFPG. I am really surprised with all the CCTV cameras A380 has this could not be avoided. The SUPER did come to stop on the dime. And bet the murphys law in aviation is at play here.... GC missed it, PF missed it and the narrow alley with darkness did only to thrust this to a major event. Very lucky no one hurt.
Holy crap Comair 6293 was cool calm and collected.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMKGv3KFqKo
Yikes.
Knocked around like a toy.
That must have been some jolt on the CRJ...I'd wager to guess someone might be looking for a new job this morning...
WOW, That must have been some ride for the pilots in that Delta!
The way that CRJ was spun around I would think there may be some other structural damage than just the horizontal stabilizer. Does anyone know if that was the same AF 380 that got clipped by the AF 330 in Paris?
The CRJ has extensive damage that is not entirely defineable in the images from last night. There are many many ripples in the fues skin, and major damage to the right wing as well among other issues... It wasnt as clean of a hit as the video makes it out to be.
Makes you think twice before unfastening your seatbelt before the plane gets to the gate :o
Btw, just wondering, who is to be blamed in this case?
Hard to say, but if you are driving and run into a parked car, what will your insurance company think?
That's a darn good question - because they are going to want to blame someone - I'm thinking the poor ground controller is going to end up with it - the taxiing skipper isn't going to be looking at what his wing is clearing - the CRJ skipper won't be looking at what is coming behind him - and the ground controller has it on radar and knows it's a 380 and what the limits are....anyone agree/disagree??Quote:
Originally Posted by RomNYC
Holy smokes!!!! Unbelieveable.............looks like that Air France was moving at a pretty good rate to spin that puppy around like a toy.
They moved it this AM to behind Hangar 5, I assume to begin repairs....
The ground controller will have no liability nor will the ramp controller in a situation like this. The crews will be totally liable. The CRJ's tail was protruding out past the hold short line onto the active taxiway though. It will likely fall in some sort of 40/60 type liability because the CRJ was protruding into a movement area from a non movement area and the 380 didnt exercise judgement. Not to mention, he will moving a little quick. Estimates put rate of speed around 20 knots or so. On another note..... Ground radar is not that precise that distances can be determined to within inches like that.... The primary purpose is to determine absolute location. Not absulute distance.
While we are being Armchair Quarterbacks :-)
I think the fault lies entirely on the crew that either pushed the CRJ back or did not entirely pull it all the way in. The taxiways are clearly marked for that reason. The airport was modified for just that reason, to accomodate the clearances of the A380 wings. How can the AFR pilot even know the wing tip would hit the CRJ? I don;t think it is that easy to judge from the cockpit unless the intrusion was obvious and from the video, it looks like it hit the very tip of the wing.
Speed would not have played a role.. slower would still not matter much.
And for the record, while at HoBe recently, an AFR A380 refused to move further unless a port truck checked for clearance when passing an Giant Air 747 cargo going the other way. And on another occassion, an AFR 777 did the same thing when they did not see for sure if a Delta 767 would be cleared while they moved to the T1 gates.
I think the crews on the ground with the Delta were sure there was enough clearance as I did not see anyone in the BACK of it running before the hit, indicating that they saw the clearance was not met. I thought there always has to be someone behind the plane as it is moving... I can not believe that position was a final one for the Delta... it most likely was just there temporarily while doing something else?
It seems to me that Delta and jetBlue have encroached upon the main taxiways quite a lot from my last trip... they come really close to the edges of the taxiway...
That makes complete sense, Moose. But pilots are also given instruction on where to go/park, correct? Somebody here either did not follow instructions, or was given bad instructions.
Wouldn't the CRJ have to report stopped in the movement area? The audioshows the A380 was instructed to hold-short of taxiway "E" and giveway to opposite direction traffic at "KD", but nothing was mentionedabout taxiway "M". Thankfully nobody was injured. It does seem thepassengers got quite a jolt from this.
From what I understand, the CRJ was waiting on a gate to open up after arriving.
I can't believe there was no neck injuries or something that looks like one hell of a jolt.
Correct. I've been in a CRJ-900 in that same exact position. They wait for their specific gate (not really a gate, but that stupid parking spot on the terminal extension for the regional jets). Each slot is market with the destination of the plane, and even though there are several other slots open and waiting, the incoming flight must wait for the designated slot to open up. So, an incoming flight that is going back out to Buffalo must wait for the Buffalo spot, and can't park in another spot. Very annoying since they are not real gates, just parking spots.Quote:
Originally Posted by m.marra
The CRJ may have been holding until he could get into his gate, or until a marshaller could directed him in. If you watch the start of the video, a pickup truck drives past the front of the CRJ, he may have stopped to allow the vehicle to clear - or else the headline might have been "CRJ hits truck at JFK" :eek:
A former Newsday co-worker, now at the Long Island Press, posted a link to their story about the collision, which used a photo of the Boeing 747-8 freighter. I complained to him, so he asked if I had a photo they could use...
http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/...t-jfk-airport/
The Newsday article was just updated (I hate to link to Newsday, but I'll do it anyway) and says "The pilot of the regional jet was "waiting to go into the gate area" when the collision happened, Peters said. The impact spun the regional jet nearly 90 degrees. There were no reported injuries, Peters said.
A review of the video indicates that the Comair jet apparently "was not far enough along on the taxiway" before the collision, Peters said.
"There could be a good reason for it," Peters said.
Anthony Black, spokesman for Delta Air Lines, said that the Comair jet, which carried 62 passengers and four crew members, had just turned a corner of the taxiway when the collision occurred.
"I don't know if it was waiting for a wing walker to get into place," Black said. "The entire collection of events will be part of the NTSB investigation."
So it is possible that the Comair flight was not far enough into the gate area.
Hmmm, I think this is slightly different. We are dealing with very large machines, with parts that can't be seen from the cockpit etc. If pilots were to be held responsible just like a car driver is, they would request mirrors and cameras in certain places.Quote:
Originally Posted by moose135
That being said, I say that cameras on the wing tips facing fore and aft would be tremendously beneficial... the pilots could have them show on the cockpit and see if the wing will clear or not from the perspective of the wingtip.
If you aren't sure you have clearance, you stop and request help, whether that is a marshaller, or a vehicle, or something else to ensure you are clear to proceed.Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalu
True, but, in this case, I think they had reasonable assurance that it would clear, how would they know or why would they think otherwise? And while on the subject, it is usually pretty dark out there by the taxiways. I have seen it and past the perimeter it is pitch black...
and as I have said earlier, I have witnessed AFR pilots use extreme caution and done just as you said, even in full daylight... so I would think they should not be blamed for carelessness.