MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
So the MTA is proposing a hike, not of the regular $2 fare, but to decrease the savings when using unlimited cards.
Here is what will probably be happening:
- [list:02b1c]-1-Day Fun Pass: Increases from $7 to $7.50
-7-Day Pass: Increases from $24 to $25*
-New 14-Day Pass: $47* (*Current 7-Day Pass users who switch to the new 14-Day Pass will actually enjoy a fare reduction.)
-30-Day Pass: Increases from $76 to $81
-Express Bus Base Fare: Remains $5
-Express Bus 7-Day Pass: Remains $41
[/list:u:02b1c]
Now, when you read that, consider this.
The average person has a 5-day work week. There are 4 weeks in a month, and therefore 20 working days per month.
$4 per-per-ride, per day (to work and back).
$4 x 20 = $80
new 1-month unlimited: price $81.
Not only did they decrease the savings for buying an unlimited Metrocard, but they made it more expensive to do so.
OMGBBQI<3SPITZER!!11!1!!1!
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
I normally try to avoid linking to nytimes.com, but this was especially relevant to the topic at hand...
Should You Change Your MetroCard Habits? Math Says, Stay the Course.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
WTF?! I'm BARELY saving money now by getting the unlimited. This is freaking ridiculous.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
OK, I'll go ahead and play devils advocate here. $81 a month to ride a public transportation system that runs 24/7 as much as you want and as far as you want is a great deal!
In most cities public transportation is not an option. A full tank of gas, which if lucky will last a week, runs generally no less than $60. Add to that the cost of maintaining that car, paying insurance on that car and the other costs associated with owning a car, and you're looking at spending many times well over $400 a month to get you around. You need none of this in NYC!
There should be incentives for riding public transportation, namely cost, but overall, public transportation is still much more reliable and much, much more "cost-efficient" than owning and maintaining a car.
With the rising costs of gas, insurance and maintenance, it's only natural for fare hikes to take place. A $5 a month hike for a monthly card is more than fair.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
Clark, I agree that we get off cheap. But the point is that getting an unlimited card is supposed to be an INCENTIVE to ride the train as opposed to driving. This helps congestion and also is good for the environment.
By making the cost of an unlimited card higher than one would pay for a month's worth of pay-per-rides, they remove that incentive for people to do what is good for many reasons.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
I commute 5-6 days a week from the Bronx to LGA and although there are ways to avoid the toll bridges (Triboro or Whitestone) they add about 45 mins each way to my commute so not worth it normally. Anyway I drive normally 1-3 days most months, $8 in tolls r/t, and approx $6 in gas r/t or about $14 total not counting wear and tear on the olde Maxima. But the majority of time I use a subway bus combo with the occasional Metro North ride to or from 125th street in Harlem.
Even with proposed slight fare hikes I will continue to use Public Transportation the majority of the time and the new $47 two week unlimited Metro Card sounds great !
LGA777
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
When I go into the city to spot, I buy the fun pass and it always works out great and in my favor.
$2 to LGA, then,
$2 back from where ever I was spotting.
$2 back to the city because bus doesn't transfer to subway
$2 out on the subway to Cargo plaza.
$2 back into the city and then wherever else I decide to go.
Definitely in my favor.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil D.
Clark, I agree that we get off cheap. But the point is that getting an unlimited card is supposed to be an INCENTIVE to ride the train as opposed to driving. This helps congestion and also is good for the environment.
By making the cost of an unlimited card higher than one would pay for a month's worth of pay-per-rides, they remove that incentive for people to do what is good for many reasons.
I'd argue that the incentive is still there. Even if you raise the unlimited monthly card to $100, the average rider would save thousands of dollars annually over driving. Even if the pay-per-ride becomes more economical for someone who only uses public transportation ONLY to go to and from work, the unlimited ride is a much better deal for those who take a few more trips a month than just to and from work.
If there are on average 20 working days a month (without holidays it's probably more like 21-22 since most months are a little over 4 weeks), you'd save $1 if you ONLY used public transportation to and from work everyday. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that most riders with monthly cards use public transportation on weekends or maybe more than once daily. The extra cost of a dollar is definitely worth the benefit of having a card that you can use whenever, wherever as many times as you want.
I don't think the increase in monthly cards by $5 is going to all of a sudden turn those two trips a day commuters into drivers. The MTA could raise the price of an unlimited to $200 (not that I'd advocate this) and it would still be cheaper to use only public transportation than it would be to drive a car to and from work daily.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF Pilot 07
but overall, public transportation is still much more reliable and much, much more "cost-efficient" than owning and maintaining a car.
:shock: <COUGH> <CHOKE> :shock:
:?: You must be using the new math. :?:
Now let's try this with the math I learned in high school.
I live in Eastern Suffolk and drive to JFK. Basically 60 miles each way 5 days a week. My import econobox gets roughly 30 miles per gallon and tonight I paid $3.19 per gallon for gas. 60x2=120 miles per day. 120/30=4 gallons of gas per day. 4x3.19=$12.76 per day.
LIRR monthly ticket Ronkoma to Jamaica is $217.56 (includes web ticket 2% discount). Parking at Ronkonkoma is $4 per day and Airtrain monthly is $40 per month. $217.56/20=$10.88 per day for LIRR $40/20=$2.00 per day for Airtrain. $10.88+$4.00(parking)+$2.00=$16.88 per day. So taking the train is already over $4.00 per day more expensive than driving and that is before I point out that I still have to drive 13 miles each way to catch the train. :o
Now for the truly fun part. I can make the drive in 55-60 minutes on average and 70 minutes if I need to be there at say 8AM. The train including drive to Ronkonkoma, LIRR to Jamaica, and Airtrain to terminal is minimum of 2 hours each way. Oh yeah if we have OSO and I leave after 1AM, forget it no eastbound trans until after 3. :shock: :evil:
:x So now let's add it up, LIRR takes 1 hour longer each way and costs me an additional $4.00 per day. Yeah, public transportation is so much more reliable and cost effective, NOT! :x
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
You're leaving stuff out, SmartassFlyboy. First, I think he meant the MTA subway/bus system, which is what these unlimited cards are for and what we're talking about.
In addition, you left out the cost of car insurance, car maintenance, or any tickets you may get throughout the year. That is already thousands of dollars a year, and it does not mention a car/loan payment that many people make as well. By using public transportation, I literally save as much as $6,000 a year, and that's before the cost of the car.
For people who live in Queens, taking the train also means not having to do with the hassle of time spent in traffic and looking for parking. Time is money to me, and instead of dealing with that annoyance, I'd rather have a seat on the subway and enjoy a good book.
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Which side are you on, Phil? :?:
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
I'm all for public transportation, especially as a cost-effective alternative to automobiles. I just think that the fare hike is idiotic.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil D.
You're leaving stuff out, SmartassFlyboy. First, I think he meant the MTA subway/bus system, which is what these unlimited cards are for and what we're talking about.
In addition, you left out the cost of car insurance, car maintenance, or any tickets you may get throughout the year. That is already thousands of dollars a year, and it does not mention a car/loan payment that many people make as well. By using public transportation, I literally save as much as $6,000 a year, and that's before the cost of the car.
For people who live in Queens, taking the train also means not having to do with the hassle of time spent in traffic and looking for parking. Time is money to me, and instead of dealing with that annoyance, I'd rather have a seat on the subway and enjoy a good book.
My PO'd rant had more to do with the fact I hate driving and as a result really hate the LIRR for being set up for only people that work 9 to 5 M-F in the city. It sucks for anyone on a non traditional schedule and/or that commutes intra LI or to Queens/Brooklyn.
As to costs I left out, my car insurance is only $650 a year full coverage (I still have the MN plates on the car), have only received 1 ticket in 4 years (and I beat that one) due Radar/Laser detector and staying with trafic flow, have a cheap econobox with no payments owed, and even with full brakes, AC compessor, bearings, 4 tires, and a 4 wheel alignment this year my maint costs are only $750 for the year which is $63 per month. It works out to under $4.00 per day which means transit still costs more and takes longer.
Part of the problem is that the LIRR ticket prices has been used for years to subsidize the subway for years. It was even in the statement issued, that even though LIRR was going up, they considered far more important that the subway fare hold at $2. Maybe if it was equalized LIRR would cost les than driving. Of course then we still have no real service east of Ronkonkoma and only 1 train an hour rom there unless it's rush hour.
Of course I have learned the hard way even in Queens or the city the MTA is not a panacea. A couple of good examples...
34'th and 7'th to LGA - I can drive it usuually in 30-40 minutes at the times I needed to be at LGA, but using subway/bus takes an hour.
LGA to Coney Island - Again this is a 30-40 minutes drive when I have done it, but using bus/subway or even ride with a friend to subway is 60-90 minutes depending on which train.
So again I say as good as our transit system is (and it is far superir to anything I have experienced in DFW, CLE, PIT, MSP, or PHL) it is still severely lacking in being cheaper and faster than driving. Until the politicians fix that inequity traffic will only get worse as most people will still drive, even though they hate it, if it both faster and cheaper to do so.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
In reference to Smartass Flyboy's first reply, I was talking about MTA NYC Transit - since the thread was originally about the increase in monthly NYC transit Unlimited Ride Card - not the LIRR, not MNRR, not Amtrak or whatever other transit system.
Suburban commuters fall into a different category, since most have to own a car anyway. It may not be more cost/time efficient for them to take public transportation everywhere (although it can be), but can be much easier and cause less headaches.
As for your "math", like Phil said, you pretty much left out all of the costs associated with owning a car, other than the only one most people think about - gas. As for your insurance only being like $630 a month, that's something called insurance fraud. Your car has to be registered at your primary place of residence, not according to what kind of plates you have on the car. If you get into an accident in NY and you're insurance company launches an investigation on the case, and finds out you no longer reside in MN and have been living in NY for some time, and hadn't notified them, they could deny you coverage.
That aside, most people living in our area don't have insurance on their cars in other states, and are therefore paying upwards of $1500 a year in car insurance. So while you may the exception, you're not the norm. Most people don't have cars that are getting 30 miles to the gallon, so again you're the exception, not the norm. Most people make car payments, and if they don't still paid tens of thousands of dollars for their cars when they purchased them. If you commute to Manhattan everyday, you add significant wear and tear on your car, leading to higher maintenance costs. Also, don't forget that if you commute to Manhattan everyday, and work in a business district, there generally isn't much street parking. So add to all those costs the cost of garaging your car at a cost of at least $20, and probably closer to $30-$40 a day; some garages down near Wall Street are as much as $100 a day.
So, like I said originally, if you live in NYC and pay even $100 a month for an unlimited Metrocard, you come out way ahead financially than if you buy a car and drive it to work everyday....
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
Also keep in mind that paying out-of-state insurance as an NY State resident is illegal.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF Pilot 07
In reference to Smartass Flyboy's first reply, I was talking about MTA NYC Transit - since the thread was originally about the increase in monthly NYC transit Unlimited Ride Card - not the LIRR, not MNRR, not Amtrak or whatever other transit system.
But part of the problem is that the LIRR is part of the MTA along with NYC Transit, and in many cases in the past (and I believe to a certain extent this time too) commuter RR fares have been raised to help subsidize the NYC system to maintain bus/subway fares.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
I'd have to see the budget breakdown to see how much of what money goes where.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil D.
Also keep in mind that paying out-of-state insurance as an NY State resident is illegal.
Who said I was a NYS resident? :wink:
:borat: I guess there are advantages to never having completed the move back east, I still have residence in MN. :borat:
I actually have 3 cars (don't ask) 1 is with me here, the other still in MN, and the third in PIT (at least until my cousin buys it from me) all with MN plates currently. :roll:
Oh yeah and whover through out $1500 a year for insurance really needs to shop around. Before I moved my NYS insurance was just around $800 per year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moose135
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF Pilot 07
In reference to Smartass Flyboy's first reply, I was talking about MTA NYC Transit - since the thread was originally about the increase in monthly NYC transit Unlimited Ride Card - not the LIRR, not MNRR, not Amtrak or whatever other transit system.
But part of the problem is that the LIRR is part of the MTA along with NYC Transit, and in many cases in the past (and I believe to a certain extent this time too) commuter RR fares have been raised to help subsidize the NYC system to maintain bus/subway fares.
DING DING DING
Johnny tell him what he's won. :lol:
A huge part of the problem and the statements made by members of the MTA board as much as said so.
Re: MTA Hikes Unlimited Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartass Flyboy
Oh yeah and whover through out $1500 a year for insurance really needs to shop around. Before I moved my NYS insurance was just around $800 per year.
NYC?... or Long Island? big difference... The original thread was about NYC. I think you'd be hard to find auto insurance for $800 a year in NYC - even in Staten Island - unless you have some POS and get no comprehensive coverage, and pay for bare bones accident coverages (in which case you'd be hoping you don't hit some kid who then turns around and sues you for $100,000)...
Also, doesn't matter what state you're a resident of when it comes to Auto Insurance. Legally, you are required to insure your car at the location where it is maintained the most - generally your primary place of residence, but not always. It doesn't matter what plates are on it, and where your state residency is. Your insurance company could deny you coverage should you get in an accident and it's found out you were committing fraud, or could jack up your rates like none other if they do cover it.
So many PA license plates are being seen on the streets of NYC, namely the poorer areas of the boroughs, because one person buys a house out in PA, and all their relatives and friends claim they live there and get residency there (even though they are spending most of the time in NYC) and then get cheap auto insurance for a car that is kept almost exclusively in NYC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moose135
But part of the problem is that the LIRR is part of the MTA along with NYC Transit, and in many cases in the past (and I believe to a certain extent this time too) commuter RR fares have been raised to help subsidize the NYC system to maintain bus/subway fares.
Yea, it'd be interesting to see what the budget breakdown really is, and how much LIRR riders are really subsidizing the NYC MTA to keep fares at $2...
This is purely speculative and a little bit of a theory, but I'd imagine many LIRR riders after getting into the city take NYC public transportation, maybe on average twice a day. If the LIRR riders as a whole weren't subsidizing NYC transit, and the base fare was increased, how much money would many of these LIRR riders really be saving?
