Columbia Univ = Hyprocracy

Now I have seen it all. On the news this morning they ran a story dealing with the decision of Columbia to allow Iran's president to speak to the students. Now we all know Columbia to be mostly liberal but the students interviewed stood by their dean's decision by using the free speech card and open forum bull****. Ok then how come when the founder of the minuteman project tried to speak he was shouted down a a riot basically broke out? I would be willing to bet a months pay when this man from Iran. Who has been open of his hate for us, wants the jews and Isreal to be basically wiped out not to mention that we have basically good evidence he was involved with our hostage taking. Will be given a civil atmosphere to speak and nothing like what happened to Jim Gilchrist will happen.

Columbia you are a totally being loyal to one side. You have no business even using the term "Free speech" If you are going to try to stand on some ritual then try practicing it first. Let everyone speak. No matter what their policital views. Or keep quiet and don't hide behind the liberties this country affords you. As a college and an organiation you should be ashamed.

Columbia is allowing Ahmadinejad - a man who says the Holocaust never happened, who claims "Death to America" and who supports anti-US terrorist groups - to speak on campus using the whole "Free Speech" excuse, yet they won't allow a ROTC detachment - full of Americans wanting to defend that so-called "Free Speech" - on campus... Am I the only one who sees a HUGE problem with this?

What a truly sad state of affairs....

I have given up with even careing about that liberal infested **** hole. There has always been a double standard there.

The grapevine is telling me there's going to be a real ****storm at Columbia tomorrow. The Minutemen thing wasn't caused by liberals; it was caused by a group of people, mostly from the International Socialist Organization, that will use any excuse to start an out-of-hand protest. They tried to do the same thing to John Kerry in 2004, but it didn't work. But there is a much broader group organizing to protest Ahmadinejad: liberals, conservatives, Jews, students at every school in the city...it's going to be interesting.

You're applying the actions of a group of students to the whole university, first of all. Second of all, the school did allow Gilchrist to speak just like they're allowing Ahmadinejad to speak, they can't control the way the students act towards what the speakers are talking about. Like Adam said, just like there were groups that disagreed with Gilchrist and staged protest, there are plenty of groups liable to stage protest against Ahmadinejad. I have a feeling that there will be a Q & A session and I have a feeling that a lot of scathing questions will be asked. I also have a feeling that there will be too much security to permit another "riot" but that there will be a lot of protesting. There's no issue here.

I don't see this as a problem. Columbia is home to the country's most prestigious journalism school, and Ahmadinejad is one of today's most important newsmakers, no matter how deplorable a person he is. I think it would be foolish for them to pass up such an opportunity. As long as there is a Q&A session, which I understand there will be, I don't think it's a problem. CU's dean said in an interview yesterday that he would have allowed Hitler to speak as long as he would have been open to questions from the students and faculty.

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You're applying the actions of a group of students to the whole university, first of all.

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When the protestors began to shout at Gilchrist the campus police sat there and did nothing, the students did nothing. They spoke as a whole not a part.

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they can't control the way the students act towards what the speakers are talking about

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So the school has no control over it's students? That's telling.

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there are plenty of groups liable to stage protest against Ahmadinejad

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I doubt it but I will watch and see. I am leaning more toward the students cheering when he starts in with his anti Bush rhetoric.

I have to agre with Nick, though I hope we are wrong.

It is most unfortunate that college kids and "Union Square'ers" don't know the difference between being taking an anti-war stance and abetting the enemy.

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Originally Posted by Phil D.

I have to agre with Nick, though I hope we are wrong.

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I've talked to about 20 people who are planning protests. You're wrong.

Good.

Unless the socialists manage to take over again. But given the quantity of anti-Iran protesting that is supposed to happen, that isn't likely. On the other hand, unlike the Minutemen guy, I seriously doubt campus security will sit on their hands for this. In fact, I'd be surprised if campus security even gets to do security...this is a "head" of "state" we're talking about.

(The International Socialist Organization DOES know the difference between taking an anti-war stance and being anti-American, and they choose the latter as loudly as they possibly can.)

(There are at least two Jewish groups planning protests. A lot of Jews are pro-Bush because they think he's pro-Israel.)

The protests that occurred with Gilchrist were intensely organized by a couple specific student groups, they weren't organized by the university, which is what you seemed to imply, therefore the university isn't being hypocritical. And anyway, we can't judge the situation before Ahmadinejad even makes his appearance, you're comparing the actions that occurred during Gilcrhist's speech with actions that haven't occurred yet.

Let's stop being paranoid. Being liberal doesn't mean anti-American, being socialist doesn't mean anti-American, being anti-war doesn't mean anti-American. Everyone's perception of anti-American is different and "anti-American" is just such a vague phrase anyway that, in my opinion, using it just shows that you have no real argument.

NcSchu:

Do you not see a problem with Columbia inviting a terrorist who repeatedly advocates "Death to America", who claims the Holocaust is a myth and who funds terrorist groups, to come speak at their school, all the while disallowing an ROTC detachment, who's produced such graduates such as Eisenhower and whose campus is littered with statues and paintings of historic military men, to be "re-stood-up"?

At one point, Columbia used to graduate more officers than the Naval Academy... Now, Columbia's welcoming terrorists into its doors, but telling young men and women wanting to serve their country as officers in the Armed Forces to take a hike, and commute back and forth between the Bronx and a completely different school to do so.

While I'm all for "open-mindedness" and intellectual discussion into worldly affairs, even the more controversial ones, I think there comes a point where someone has to step up and take a stand and either say "enough is enough" or re-evaluate their priorities. Unfortunately, no one at Columbia seems to have to courage to do so.

I think people are wasting too much time and energy over this. As GothamSpotter already pointed out, Ahmadinejad is one of today's most important newsmakers and it would be a huge loss to pass up an opertunity to hear him speak. So either you can listen to the speech and try to understand this guy better (as I intend to do) OR you should just ignore it completely. I don't understand why people are going to go out there to protest his speech - he already KNOWS that he is extremely unpopular in the Western World and he KNOWS that his visit to the US comes with much opposition. What are protests going to show him that he doesn't already know? On the other hand, WE don't know exactly what this guy is all about, so to those opposed - please don't muck up this unique opertunity for those of us who want to gain something out of his visit. It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by jran225

I think people are wasting too much time and energy over this. As GothamSpotter already pointed out, Ahmadinejad is one of today's most important newsmakers and it would be a huge loss to pass up an opertunity to hear him speak. So either you can listen to the speech and try to understand this guy better (as I intend to do) OR you should just ignore it completely. I don't understand why people are going to go out there to protest his speech - he already KNOWS that he is extremely unpopular in the Western World and he KNOWS that his visit to the US comes with much opposition. What are protests going to show him that he doesn't already know? On the other hand, WE don't know exactly what this guy is all about, so to those opposed - please don't muck up this unique opertunity for those of us who want to gain something out of his visit. It's that simple.

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I agree, except I don't understand what you mean when you say we don't know what he's about. I think we know all too well. We're well beyond learning anything from him.

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I've talked to about 20 people who are planning protests. You're wrong.

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Planning protests means nothing. It's whether they disrupt(or are allowed) to disrupt him when he speaks. You will see that this is not the case.

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The protests that occurred with Gilchrist were intensely organized by a couple specific student groups, they weren't organized by the university, which is what you seemed to imply, therefore the university isn't being hypocritical

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So your telling me that the university knew nothing? Or that campus police just sat there and did nothing why? Come on, don't be naive. The University could have handled that situation much better if they wanted.

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Let's stop being paranoid. Being liberal doesn't mean anti-American, being socialist doesn't mean anti-American, being anti-war doesn't mean anti-American. Everyone's perception of anti-American is different and "anti-American" is just such a vague phrase anyway that, in my opinion, using it just shows that you have no real argument.
The protests that occurred with Gilchrist were intensely organized by a couple specific student groups, they weren't organized by the university, which is what you seemed to imply, therefore the university isn't being hypocritical. And anyway, we can't judge the situation before Ahmadinejad even makes his appearance, you're comparing the actions that occurred during Gilcrhist's speech with actions that haven't occurred yet.

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This has nothing to do with being anti-american. It has to do with not wanting to hear the other side. Which is the point you missed which is why you can't understand. This has nothing to do with war or anything like that. It's that the school wants their beliefs to be the only ones heard and doesn't want someone like Gilchrist to speak. Which is why they acted the way they did and why nothing was done to stop it once it started.

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nothingDo you not see a problem with Columbia inviting a terrorist who repeatedly advocates "Death to America", who claims the Holocaust is a myth and who funds terrorist groups, to come speak at their school, all the while disallowing an ROTC detachment, who's produced such graduates such as Eisenhower and whose campus is littered with statues and paintings of historic military men, to be "re-stood-up"?

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I am a believer in free speech so even though I think this man is dispicable I will still let him talk and not censor him.

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I think people are wasting too much time and energy over this. As GothamSpotter already pointed out, Ahmadinejad is one of today's most important newsmakers and it would be a huge loss to pass up an opertunity to hear him speak. So either you can listen to the speech and try to understand this guy better (as I intend to do) OR you should just ignore it completely. I don't understand why people are going to go out there to protest his speech - he already KNOWS that he is extremely unpopular in the Western World and he KNOWS that his visit to the US comes with much opposition. What are protests going to show him that he doesn't already know? On the other hand, WE don't know exactly what this guy is all about, so to those opposed - please don't muck up this unique opertunity for those of us who want to gain something out of his visit. It's that simple.

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Many here are missing my point. I am not against him coming. All I am saying is that if you are going to attempt to hide behind free speech then let EVERYONE have it. Free speech means that all are allowed to say what they want. With no fear of attack. Something Gilchrist didn't have and something I feel this man will. We will see.

The university probably knew about the protests, but they had no right to stop the protests because it's free speech; I doubt they knew that there would be pseudo-rioting, it seems like that was more "of the moment" as rioting usually is. The campus police are independent of the university and it's their fault for not stopping the riot (not the protest). Again, this paranoia that everyone, including now the Campus police, was against Gilchrist is simply ridiculous. Once things were set in motion it was difficult to stop.

On the Anti-America business, I was responding to Phil's post about being Anti-American, totally separate from this discussion.

Columbia does have a right to stop protests on their own property.

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Originally Posted by Phil D.

Columbia does have a right to stop protests on their own property.

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A right? Yes. But these are absolutely different situations with regard to security. With Gilchrist, the university absolutely knew there was going to be protesting. There were probably posters all over campus, and there's a protest any time someone big (liberal or conservative or otherwise) comes to speak. It's rare that a protest gets out of hand, but campus security was in a no-win situation. If they did nothing (which they did), they'd get skewered for doing nothing (which they did). If they did something, they'd get skewered for overreacting and suppressing free speech, by many of the same media outlets who skewered them for doing nothing. Remember, it was the (hypocritical) students suppressing Gilchrist's free speech; the university didn't suppress anyone, even though it probably should have.

Ahmadinejad coming to speak is different. This isn't some random racist most people on campus had never heard of before he was scheduled to speak; this racist is a "head" of "state". And it's an entire FORUM of world leaders who are in town. You'd be an idiot to think campus security is going to be calling the shots on this protest; I'm not sure who is calling the shots, but I'd be willing to bet it's the Secret Service. Which allows the university to neatly dodge the free speech issue if a riot does in fact start. Unless the Secret Service WANTS him to be attacked, which is probably wishful thinking.

(In case anyone is wondering why I know so much about how Columbia does things, I do have a degree from there. hiss srq's description of a "liberal ****hole" is not far off-base. But the conclusions being drawn from that in this thread are rather off-base.

I spent my protesting effort on much less controversial issues, like the university's previously horrid Sexual Misconduct Policy. And I was a member of both the Democrat and Republican student organizations; they're both pretty hypocritical where free speech is concerned. Most of the protests then were about Israel, but they lost a lot of credibility when people started to realize that they hated Jews, rather than Israel.)

Though I still do not agree that this event should be taking place I must say that I am indeed impressed and slightly shocked at the statements Bollinger made in his opening for the event. I honestly expected to see a massive liberal fluffing going on.

I do not see a problem with having the President of Iran speaking at the College, as long as he is given tough questions. I am getting tired of seeing these fluff interviews him on the local Networks.......

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“Today I feel all the weight of the modern civilized world yearning to express the revulsion at what you stand for,” Mr. Bollinger told Mr. Ahmadinejad. “I only wish I could do better.”

The auditorium erupted in thunderous applause.

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(Mr. Bollinger is Lee Bollinger, the president of Columbia University.)

Bollinger asked some really hardcore questions, and he pressured Ahmadinejad to answer them, unfortunately it seems he avoided a lot of them. They're doing a question and answer period as I type, he avoided a question about Israel. I found this link to be very thorough, and it's constantly being updated by the reporter on the scene.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/ ... yt&emc=rss

I was reading that too, Nick.

Quote of the day, when asked about Iran's policy of executing homosexuals: "In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country. We don't have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon, I do not know who has told you that we have it."

http://members.cox.net/pimpbot9000/roflcopter.gif

Almost as funny as "Do some more research into what happened in Germany in the 40's" Let's see we have, first hand accounts, photos, video and we dug up the effing graves filled with people. What is this person smoking? I tell you I find this to be the biggest waste of time in letting this man speak. Nothing was accomplished and he danced around every question that was based on fact. Someone on FOX said he felt Columbia just did this to gain notoriety for themselves and I have to tell you I think it's true. This was sad. Free speech is great but when you are going to hide behind comments you already made and make new ones that make little or no sense what's the point?

Of course Columbia was doing it for their own notoriety. As was Ahmadinejad; this was a big publicity stunt for pretty much everyone involved.

Ahmadinejad's backtracking and general evasiveness should be a good reminder of what happens when people who have no concept of free speech are given free speech.

I have no problem with the way Colombia handled the Ahmadinejad q&a. Quite frankly the participants did a better job interviewing him than most of the news "journalists" who ***** foot around such controversial questions. Whether it's Limbaugh, Hannity, Brokaw, Rather, Sawyer even Oprah, all you see and hear is politeness from these buffoons when push comes to shove and they interview the people they are critical of. Good for Colombia.

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Originally Posted by adam613

Of course Columbia was doing it for their own notoriety.

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Yup, theyve been losing ground to my alma mater downtown for years now. We don't need to pull stunts like Columbia did to get attention.

This is the backdrop Ahmadinejad spoke in front of at a recent Islamic Conference..."World without Zion". Notice the US and Judiasm orbs broken or being broken.

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/w...onism_conf.jpg

Now of course it can all be symbolic of this or that, [meant to be political in nature rather than literal] but clearly he wants to push the envelope, but pictures do sometimes speak louder than words. Can anyone imagine Bush speaking in front of backdrop of comparable provocation?

Tom

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Originally Posted by GothamSpotter

I was reading that too, Nick.

Quote of the day, when asked about Iran's policy of executing homosexuals: "In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country. We don't have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon, I do not know who has told you that we have it."

http://members.cox.net/pimpbot9000/roflcopter.gif

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Iran is an Islamic State and the rules of Islam prohibit homosexuality. What's so wrong or funny about his answer aside from that fact that we don't agree with it?

Greetz,
-Omario

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Originally Posted by jran225

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Originally Posted by GothamSpotter

I was reading that too, Nick.

Quote of the day, when asked about Iran's policy of executing homosexuals: "In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country. We don't have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon, I do not know who has told you that we have it."

http://members.cox.net/pimpbot9000/roflcopter.gif

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Iran is an Islamic State and the rules of Islam prohibit homosexuality. What's so wrong or funny about his answer aside from that fact that we don't agree with it?

Greetz,
-Omario

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He said that there are NO homosexuals in Iran, the concept doesn't exist there. Meanwhile: HnzL4nQ3CDU

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Originally Posted by Nycfly75

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Originally Posted by jran225

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Originally Posted by GothamSpotter

I was reading that too, Nick.

Quote of the day, when asked about Iran's policy of executing homosexuals: "In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country. We don't have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon, I do not know who has told you that we have it."

http://members.cox.net/pimpbot9000/roflcopter.gif

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Iran is an Islamic State and the rules of Islam prohibit homosexuality. What's so wrong or funny about his answer aside from that fact that we don't agree with it?

Greetz,
-Omario

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He said that there are NO homosexuals in Iran, the concept doesn't exist there. Meanwhile: HnzL4nQ3CDU

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Shocking video...Well Vin he is right there are none or won't be...he's killing all of them. This man is risk to humankind.

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Originally Posted by T-Bird76

Shocking video...Well Vin he is right there are none or won't be...he's killing all of them. This man is risk to humankind.

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Indeed and just to think people used to have an egg when Fidel came here for the UN. Fidel couldnt hurt a fly compared with this guy.

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Originally Posted by Nycfly75

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Originally Posted by adam613

Of course Columbia was doing it for their own notoriety.

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Yup, theyve been losing ground to my alma mater downtown for years now. We don't need to pull stunts like Columbia did to get attention.

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Heh...they've been pulling stunts like this for longer than your alma mater downtown has been in existence.

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Originally Posted by jran225

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Originally Posted by GothamSpotter

I was reading that too, Nick.

Quote of the day, when asked about Iran's policy of executing homosexuals: "In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country. We don't have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon, I do not know who has told you that we have it."

http://members.cox.net/pimpbot9000/roflcopter.gif

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Iran is an Islamic State and the rules of Islam prohibit homosexuality. What's so wrong or funny about his answer aside from that fact that we don't agree with it?

Greetz,
-Omario

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It's further proof that he doesn't live in the same reality as the rest of us...