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You know, I never really understood the term.
Perhaps some of the sage gentlemen here, who saw the period in action, can explain what exactly air travel was like prior to this term and subsequent to it?
I think it'd help edumacate some of the younger snappers like myeslf. ;)
I am looking forward to your collective wisdom to once more grace the forums. :)
Thanks in advance,
Mario
Then maybe you should read "Hard Landing" ? :) You will experience that period of time in first person. Seriously, in that book you can learn everything about Deregulation. In two weeks I will check on you if you read that book ;)
Rafal
I agree, Hard Landing is an excellent book and coveres EVERYTHING you need to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by tipek
Alex
Long story short, my 2 cents worth:
Pre-deregulation : Going back to when commercial aviation was a 'new' industry, the Civil Aeronautics Board set fares, so airlines had to compete on service. This is what many oldtimers remember as the good old days, when almost any flight was kind of a special experience, friendly employees, meals of course in all classes and souvenirs for the kids and such. Downside for consumers was that fares were set at high levels that only the wealthy (or upper middle class at least) could afford, and CAB decided who could fly where.
Post-deregulation: CAB went away, airlines were allowed to compete on price, which led to lower fares that just about anyone could afford, and more choice for consumers from new competitors like People Express. However, it also required the existing industry to deal with a high cost structure set under the prior regulated system, and in the process cut back on service levels in certain ways to stay competitive. Lines at the airport got longer, passenger amenities started to disappear, employees stopped smiling alot etc.
See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act
Can you summarize HARD LANDING and what I asked in this post?
I have a 1 month old son at home.....reading and personal time is non-existent!
CAB was one of the best things for the business.
Everyone got "a fair slice of the pizza" and airlines competed with SERVICE.
Pricing was not as bad as some may think.
It was only until the insane de-regulation rates came into effect- immediately the flying public expected full service and minimum fees.
I recall PeopleExpress 747 service EWR-London, round trip for $99.00
Pricing is a strange market, because, no matter how low a price is- your always going to get the crowd that's never satisfied with any deal. And that's what the majority of the flying public has learned, and stooped to.
Nowadays the "flying experience" somehow magically transforms regular adults into totally unreasonable whiners, fit throwing, bitching, pushing, rude, crude sub humanoids. And what the hell is the trend of using a single ticket to move your entire household?!
Flying is somewhere between a cattle car with wings or a bus full of imbeciles.
Later I'll post some pics to convey the attitude of that wonderful era.
Pride. Class. Good taste. Professionalism. Legacy.
Even stability. Crews were not constantly preoccupied with "getting axed" They worked knowing their with a great company and some day retirement will be there's.
It truly was the good old days.
That couldn't have been said better.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingColors
Flying Colors - Great answer, you seem to have the insider perspective whereas I just remember that flying was more fun when I was a kid than it is today.
That said, the government is not interested in whether or not I enjoy my travel experience, the objective is to foster competition and low prices that more people can afford. It's the same logic that deregulated long distance telecom among other industries. If I want a comfortable trip with amenities, I accept the fact that I will probably have to pay for business class (although economy on certain foreign airlines is more like it used to be here). Sure I miss my meals in domestic coach but so be it.
Free market economics of the type embraced by the leaders of this country require that a) government not interfere with competition between private businesses and b) low price and consumer choice are more important than labor or industry stability.
OK, I am starting to get a sense of it.
Now, one question...
"It was only until the insane de-regulation rates came into effect- immediately the flying public expected full service and minimum fees.
I recall PeopleExpress 747 service EWR-London, round trip for $99.00 "
So just to clarify, that INSANE, it really is INSANE, deal, just just AFTER De-regulation, right?
Hungry?
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/b...82foodchef.jpg
Service:
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/f009_1.jpg
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/25291.jpg
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/7a_1_b.jpg
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/d0fe_1_b.jpg
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/ads101206019.jpg
Touch of pride,style:
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/43_1.jpg
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/0052-03a.jpg
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/panam602jetfleet.jpg
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/67twasm.jpg
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/1962TWAsm1.jpg
Great posts, Mike. So is it safe to assume that you think deregulation should never have happened?
What's your take on what the industry would be like today if it didn't?
Great post Mike but put the magazines away.
Considering the audience, its likely your pages will stick together by day's end. :)
Great to see that old stuff and especially good to see Frank Borman again, my dad met him once on an Eastern flight when he was in charge and got me an autographed picture of this astronaut/CEO....I guess it says alot about the industry that today, the CEOs are all MBAs and former banker types, compared to the old days when they were pioneering aviators and such.
Yeah, don't forget drunks too :?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonstop2AUH
Nope, that's why I keep um in plastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrodie
I practice safer viewing with all my partners!
Surely someone's posted it on here before, but here's some video from the (regulated) dawn of the jet age
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Looks like a nice experience front and back doesn't it? Today it's just basic transportation unless you have the bucks (or miles) for business or first. But this is what the economics require. Most consumers want to pay as little as possible for their transportation, and that requires the airlines to cut costs (and therefore service levels) if they hope to make any sort of profit. Then, there is a small number of people who will pay up for better service and amenities, and for them there is premium cabin. This ends up being very expensive because in many cases, it is subsidizing the cheap fares behind the curtain.
PS Out of curiousity I decided to see what $99 round trip to London in the early '80s would be in today's dollars, and it came to a bit more than $200.
BA currently has a sale fare of $149 o/w advertised at
http://www.britishairways.com/travel/lc ... blic/en_us
So yes, it's more expensive today but not as much more as it would appear.
See this one!
H3_aNtQFsLk
In the '60s, this is what they thought things at Braniff would be like by 1975.
vBm59i4PlDU
Of course, it wasn't quite like that, but right up until deregulation and fare-based competition took hold, it was a classy experience. My late grandfather never flew without a suit and tie, because people of that era felt that flying was something you dressed for, like a business meeting or going out to dinner.
Here's what TWA was offering in the way of differentiation on its transcon services in the mid '70s, brought to you by Mr. Peter Sellars:
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and
oLy2DkJ8xn8
International-quality service on domestic flights! Today there's no way they could provide some of these things with the current price structure.
You know, I finally sat down and read the wikipedia rendition of what its all about. THank you for all the answers. I never really understtod what it was like before and after.
It really seems like a lose- lose proposition. I mean the airlines went from virtually guaranteed margins to near break even margins and it seems that the only real gain was an average 9% drop in fares over the years.
That is the gist I am getting.
So how did such legislation come to pass? It really just does not seem to make sense.
Back in college (I know, don't say it - "But that was back before airplanes Moose") I did a paper on the pro & cons of deregulation for a basic economics class I took. If I can find it (I have all sorts of crap in the attic!) I'll have to see what I wrote. For the record, I was on the anti-deregulation side.Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrodie
That's some good stuff too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonstop2AUH
I was not raised during regulation but I flew in the after math of it, 90's. I mostly flew TWA, and i recall always, always getting food, and service on most flights.
I always dress up when I fly on any airline, yes even Southwest Airlines. After all Flying SHOULD be a class, you are involved with the public, and working crews and folks, dont you WANT to give a good impression of yourself to others, by dressing up? Not be seen wearing shorts and sandals? I don't think so. I don't care what airline you are.
I myself own QUITE a bit of these airline ads myself, i collected them from National Geoghraphic books, I gave Tom a TWA ad one. and will give my other friend an Eastern Airlines one too.
Regulation was a fine time for service, but it had high prices.
I DO miss when flying had style, class, you felt proud to ride on an airline, and i always bragged when I was flying on TWA, like "hey check this out, *shows them a ticket with TWA in red stamped on it* it was like showing a million dollars to me.
Now, I will become an employee of an airline, Southwest Airlines. This airline did not help the change of regulation i understand but by no way was the result or fault of it. I do wish folks still dressed up, have pride in who you are, and how you represent yourself, doing it in shorts and sandals doesn't do it for me.
Hope someone could understand it from a young ones viewpoint.
Alex