Another Blow to the A380

UPS may cancel Airbus A380 order
Package delivery firm expected to terminate remaining order of 10 planes, leaving Airbus without an order for the embattled superjumbo, paper says.
January 19 2007: 7:33 AM EST


PARIS (Reuters) -- Airbus could soon be without a single order for the freighter version of its troubled A380 superjumbo, a market the planemaker only recently said held demand for 400 planes.

French newspaper Les Echos reported Friday that package delivery firm United Parcel Service Inc. (Charts) is expected to cancel the only remaining order - for 10 of the planes - next week. It did not identify its sources for the story.

Asked Wednesday whether UPS was poised to dump the plane, top Airbus salesman John Leahy said, "They are deciding that as we speak."

Friday, a spokeswoman for Airbus, when asked about the newspaper report said, "I have no information along that line."

Airbus this week revealed its 2006 overall orders total, which fell behind arch rival Boeing Co. (Charts) for the first time since 2000.

The numbers revealed Airbus' weakness in freighters, as Boeing took orders for 81 while Airbus won none.

This July, Airbus plans to deliver the last of its only freighter model, the 35-year-old A300/A310, while the company has announced plans to build a freight version of the A330-200.

Tom Williams, executive vice president for Airbus programs, said Thursday that whatever happened, the planemaker would not entirely end its development work on a freighter version of the A380.

Stepping stone
Analysts say the project is a stepping stone to offering a stretched version of the A380 airliner, which could seat 1,000 passengers.

Airbus could announce it will await better times for it to produce a cargo version, Les Echos said.

UPS rival FedEx Corp. (Charts) cancelled an order for 10 A380 freighters, citing delays that have put the project two years behind schedule.

It bought Boeing's 777 freighter instead.

Two other firms - airline Emirates and aircraft lessor International Lease Finance Corp. - have converted A380 freighter orders to passenger versions.

Wiring installation problems have delayed deliveries of the double-decker, with the first now due for delivery in late 2007 to Singapore Airlines.

The project Wednesday prompted the third profit warning in less than a year from Airbus parent firm EADS.

Airbus' long-term market forecast issued just two months ago called for demand for more than 400 very large freighters by 2025.

If the A380 freighter is shelved, its hopes will be pinned in the interim on the smaller A330-200F twin-engine freighter due in the second half of 2009.

Shares in EADS were down 0.5 percent at 23.94 euros versus Paris' CAC-40 which was off 0.4 percent as of 4:35 a.m. ET.

Malaysia on Thursday lifted the threat of canceling an order for six A380 airliners for national carrier Malaysian Airline System Bhd.

I am now convinced that Airbus did not make a good choice when they decided to start the A380. An A350 would compete better with Boeing's 787 and if they had gone ahead with that project, they might not be in such bad shape.

Hey, SWAB! What's up?

A serous blow to the A380F program, no customers. Airbus is in trouble here!

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Originally Posted by SWABoeing737

I am now convinced that Airbus did not make a good choice when they decided to start the A380.

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Was the 787 even in 7E7 stage when the A380 was launched? :?

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Originally Posted by SWABoeing737

An A350 would compete better with Boeing's 787 and if they had gone ahead with that project, they might not be in such bad shape.

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They're trying to go ahead with the A350, but the problem there is that they did not take the 787 seriously enough in the beginning. I remember reading an article in Airliners shortly after ANA's mega 50-frame order that quoted an Airbus rep saying they were not concerned with a 787-like plane.

-Will

When you're the only one in the world with a particular aircraft type, odds are the program will end early and the cost of maintenence and parts will go way up and render the type useless for profitability.

Not to mention that Airbus is teh geigh.

Smart move by UPS.

"Teh geigh"??? Phil, English please!!! ;) What does that mean anyway?


I agree, Airbus just needed to look at the Concorde to learn the lesson that has a high probability of happening with the A380. Or, just look at why MD didn't go ahead with the MD-12 and Boeing didn't go ahead with their large plane design.

So I wonder if UPS will go back to their original A300 order or go with Boeing. Airbus let them out of their A300 contract for the A380 order.

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Was the 787 even in 7E7 stage when the A380 was launched?

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Yes, I believe it was still in the talks.

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They're trying to go ahead with the A350, but the problem there is that they did not take the 787 seriously enough in the beginning. I remember reading an article in Airliners shortly after ANA's mega 50-frame order that quoted an Airbus rep saying they were not concerned with a 787-like plane.

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Let's see, reasonable sized 777 sibling, or the double decker blue whale of a plane.... Hmmmm..... Difficult choice....

The A350 is a joke! A330 with 787 wings...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bCv-F763Xc0

Recent problems aside (and almost every all-new aircraft has some), I think the A380 has a shot at being successful in the niche market of transporting large amounts of passengers and goods between the booming economies of Asia and the Indian subcontinent. If you look at the flows of people and cargo being created by globalization, specifically those outside of North America, you will realize why operators like Emirates and Singapore are still interested in this sort of aircraft.

Despite the earlier hype, it's never really been about having a duty free shop or sauna or whatever Airbus and SRB promoted to get media attention, those are the modern day version of the 747's short-lived upper deck lounge. The truth is that the A380 is a massive people mover, and in that role may yet prove to be very efficient.

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Originally Posted by Nonstop2AUH

Recent problems aside (and almost every all-new aircraft has some), I think the A380 has a shot at being successful in the niche market of transporting large amounts of passengers and goods between the booming economies of Asia and the Indian subcontinent.

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I think most would agree that it's the only place that the aircraft can do well.

I do think that the idea is a little bit before its time. As the world population grows, aircraft with this capacity will be necessary, albeit not for at least 50 years I'd guess. But by then, of course, technology will be vey different, and aircraft will being flying faster thorugh the edges of space and hopefully using alternative fuels.

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Originally Posted by Phil D.

But by then, of course, technology will be vey different, and aircraft will being flying faster thorugh the edges of space and hopefully using alternative fuels.

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"Beam me up, Scotty" :D

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Originally Posted by nwafan20

The A350 is a joke! A330 with 787 wings...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bCv-F763Xc0

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Now that is good! :lol: :P

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UPS denied a French newspaper report that it plans to cancel its order for 10 A380Fs this week. The cargo carrier is the last customer for the freighter version of the aircraft. Rival FedEx cancelled its order for 10 A380Fs in November and placed an order for 15 777Fs with 15 options instead, saying that market demands were too pressing to wait for Airbus to work through production issues (ATWOnline, Nov. 8, 2006). Les Echos reported last week that UPS will drop the order, but the company moved quickly Friday to clarify that no decision has been made and that it continues to talk with Airbus regarding a revised delivery schedule.

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Doesn't look like its happening..

I think the best use for the A380 will be for cargo. I just think it's just too big for passenger air travel. And well, if one of those crashes.....

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The A350 is a joke! A330 with 787 wings...

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But it is more reasonable than the A380, surely you could agree to that.

I agree,

I think most of the PAX A380's will be converted into Freight versions after the airlines learn they are just not worth it to use on PAX flights. That or inter-China flights!! ;) :D

The A380 was at least Airbus' design, unlike the A350 which looks so much like a 787 that a change in paint, and they would be one of the same!

For those who say the A380 is too big for passenger service, I agree -- in North America, which is not the market it was intended for. In the rapidly growing economies located between the Middle East and Asia, say from the Gulf east to Japan and whatever in between, there are huge numbers of people concentrated in urban areas that need or want to travel between these areas, and to places where there is a large non-resident population. On a cost basis, the A380 may be the most efficient way to handle this traffic, which is more interested in an affordable fare on, say, a daily service than in the sort of frequent service provided by smaller aircraft on a shuttle schedule favored by US travelers. This is somewhat of the concept behind Oasis Hong Kong and the use of 747s to fly domestic flights in Japan, i.e. take a big plane, pack in the seats, and get economies of scale. I'm not saying I don't agree with the more bearish points of view, I am just saying give it time because perhaps those with a negative view are looking at it too much from the American market perspective.

Exactly, I made a notation of that in my previous post "That or inter-China flights!!"

The other problem with the A380 is it's size, taxiways and runways both need to be widened, gates need to be able to handle all of it, and passengers may try to avoid it for the crowds. Try getting your luggage with 550 people all from the same plane! :)

It's funny how everyone here likes to talk about the A380 delays but there is no mention of similar problems awaiting the 787, although Wall Street is catching on:

http://www.marke****ch.com/news/story/w ... 9E8E63D%7D

You know why that is Non stop :)
I usually keep ym mouth shut about this topic heheh.

Senga

Lol Senga, I'm glad this board is usually free of the A vs. B craziness that tends to infest A.net and such. Actually, I think if one is truly a fan of civil aviation, one should hope that any new type is successful, A380, 787, IL-96-300 or whatever. Leads to better spotting.

[quote="Nonstop2AUH"]It's funny how everyone here likes to talk about the A380 delays but there is no mention of similar problems awaiting the 787, although Wall Street is catching on:

So there are actually some non-Airbus haters in this forum? Thank God!

Ruling out any further unforeseen issues with A380, I imagine it will do okay for many years to come. Just how good? Who knows.

It does look like the 747-8 however, both pax and cargo, will be taking a small to medium size bite out of a part of the whalejet's market though.

I am guessing Emirates' near future success or difficulty with a large fleet of this type will be a significant factor.

One thing is sure though.. I don't know the answer. :)

Tom

i don't care what anybody says i for one can't wait to see one on the canarsie approach !

I am sure this has been covered here before, but as it's been a fluid situation, does anyone know as of now when we might first expect to see an A380 in NYC or, for that matter, the northeast US? I am suspecting it may be a long time because as I said earlier, this isn't really the sort of market that supports its economics. Still, I'd love to see one in person and it would be cool to see it here first rather than DXB or AUH (where I used to live).

I've read that Airbus will do a North America tour with an A380 in the spring, which will include a stop at JFK.

OUTSTANDING !!!! I'm a Boeing /Douglas guy from day one,cut my teeth on the DC-3,and the 727, but I like the look of the A330/340,(especially the 600),and I look fwd to seeing the A380 in person. Though
I am looking fwd to the 747-8 with much more enthusiasm.

But, knowing the history of Airbus and delays, it doesn't look like Boeing will have any where near as many delays, that is something Airbus is known for. Nearly every one of their new planes has been delayed.