Xmas trees removed from Sea-Tac

December 9, 2006
No menorah, no tree

SEA-TAC Airport - All of the Christmas trees inside the terminal at Sea-Tac have been removed in response to a complaint by a rabbi.

A local rabbi wanted to install an 8-foot menorah and have a public lighting ceremony. He threatened to sue if the menorah wasn’t put up, and gave a two-day deadline to remove the trees.

Sea-Tac public affairs manager Terri-Ann Betancourt said the trees that adorn the Sea-Tac upper and lower levels may not properly represent all cultures.

She said that since this is their busiest time of year and they don't have time to add a fair representation of all cultures, her department decided to take down all of the decorations, review their policies, and decide if they need to make a change for next year.

"You know, our focus is on customer service, getting our passengers through the airport, and we thought if we could take the trees down and avoid litigation because we don't want to littigate with this individual, we want to reach some kind of solution," Betancourt said. "But that is going to take some thoughtful discussion and we would like to have time to have that thoughtful discussion."

Until then, no Christmas decor at Sea-Tac.

The same decorations have been put up for at least 10 years, she added.

Ridiculous! Why didn't the airport just agree to put up the Menorah?

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Originally Posted by USAF Pilot 07

Ridiculous! Why didn't the airport just agree to put up the Menorah?

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Agreed! Totalbull $hitif you ask me too but unfortuneately people like to make a big deal.

The Christmas tree doesn't even represent the Christian side of Christmas, it represents the secular side of it. What's the big deal with a Christmas tree? Well, according to a recent poll, 95% of Americans celebrate Christmas, majority rules.

Majority rules? Are you kidding?

That's like saying "well, my neigborhood is 80% white and you're black, so you can't come in this supermarket since it's in my neigborhood." I know that's a bit of an extreme analogy, but what you said was a bit off-color.

I have to agree yet disagree............ Tree stays in my opinion and yes the majority do celebrate Xmas here in the states but if we are going to represent one end I guess we should represent the other end as well......
In Long Beach they do a good job for the most part hitting all ends. Than again Long Beach is packed full of Jewish people as well as a heavy Italian and Irish presence so I guess people would go up in flames if it was not equally represented......... We have trees in LGA and when passengers ask about the tree and no other symbols of other faiths I kind of just shrug....... It is not my job to decorate......

i mean if there is a x-mas tree there - then u should put the menorah there too i am sure there is room somewhere??

You are right Bobby, but until someone complained, they didn't think there was a need for one. After they received a complaint, they said they didn't have time to put one up, (being their busy time of year, and all) and instead spent the time taking down the trees.

Mel: Not at all, what I am saying is that we don't need to have a decoration in an airport for every single holiday. You can celebrate whatever you want but this is getting crazy.

Out in Detroit, there is a statue of a black mans fist (Joe Louis' statue) , the area it's in is about 70% black, so what? Just because it isn't a white persons hand (Say, Steve Yizermen (sp?)) doesn't mean that you have to take it down because it doesn't represent everybody.

I wouldn't object to putting up a menorah, but I do object to taking Christmas trees down because someone wasn't happy (It was a Christmas tree, not even a Christian reference, call it a holiday tree if you want!)

The only thing I found offensive about what you said was "majority rules." It seemed as though you were saying "tough cookies" to the 5%.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree 100% with either side of the original story, but I just think it's a bit rude to take the overruled stance.

Couldn't the airport have worked with the Rabbi, or local synagogues, to get a suitable menorah for airport display? It seems "silly" the airport couldn't come to a solution on how to represent all religions celebrating during the holiday season...

Sorry Mel, it probably came off wrong, I wasn't saying "Tough Luck", I was just saying I don't think that they should have had to take down the trees because a single person complained about it.

20 years ago this wouldn't have been an issue. We're too PC now.

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Originally Posted by USAF Pilot 07

Couldn't the airport have worked with the Rabbi, or local synagogues, to get a suitable menorah for airport display? It seems "silly" the airport couldn't come to a solution on how to represent all religions celebrating during the holiday season...

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Christmas has gone beyond any Religous & Christmas Trees do not have an Religous meaning.

By displaying the Menorah, then the Federal Airport would be endorsing a Religion, which is a no-no.

WTF!! this is getting to be ridiculous! how much time does that rabbi spend in the airport? why are people so damn scared of doing what they want to do anymore?


i want to buy and island and create my own coutry... who's with me?

[quote=Midnight Mike]

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Originally Posted by "USAF Pilot 07":55af4

Couldn't the airport have worked with the Rabbi, or local synagogues, to get a suitable menorah for airport display? It seems "silly" the airport couldn't come to a solution on how to represent all religions celebrating during the holiday season...

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Christmas has gone beyond any Religous & Christmas Trees do not have an Religous meaning.

By displaying the Menorah, then the Federal Airport would be endorsing a Religion, which is a no-no.[/quote:55af4]

Mike I'm not sure how true that is? Regardless of how commercial Christmas is, the foundations of what the Christmas tree is, is routed in Christian belief. I was at JFK and IAD this weekend and they have both Christmas tree’s and Menorah's up. I don't know why the airport just didn't put up a Menorah. Christianity and Judaism are the two main religions in this country and should be celebrated by our country.

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Originally Posted by "T-Bird76

Mike I'm not sure how true that is? Regardless of how commercial Christmas is, the foundations of what the Christmas tree is, is routed in Christian belief. I was at JFK and IAD this weekend and they have both Christmas tree’s and Menorah's up. I don't know why the airport just didn't put up a Menorah. Christianity and Judaism are the two main religions in this country and should be celebrated by our country.

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Well, until the next lawsuit. What is next Kwanzaa? Wiccans? How about a Voodoo Holiday over Christmas?

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Originally Posted by Midnight Mike

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Originally Posted by "T-Bird76

Mike I'm not sure how true that is? Regardless of how commercial Christmas is, the foundations of what the Christmas tree is, is routed in Christian belief. I was at JFK and IAD this weekend and they have both Christmas tree’s and Menorah's up. I don't know why the airport just didn't put up a Menorah. Christianity and Judaism are the two main religions in this country and should be celebrated by our country.

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Well, until the next lawsuit. What is next Kwanzaa? Wiccans? How about a Voodoo Holiday over Christmas?

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Well I'll be a little Right wing extremist here, so let the flaming begin. Screw Kwanzaa and other BS holidays that some flaming liberal minority says we have to recognize but they don't even know what it means. Our country was founded on Jewdeo Christian beliefs and values. We need to go back to our roots and get our moral house in order. Put up the Christmas trees!!!!

Interesting stat I came across, from The Association of Religion Data Archives:

Largest Religious Groups
Christian (84.12%), Jewish (1.92%), Muslim (1.55%), Buddhist (0.91%), Ethnoreligionist (0.39%)

This source provides a bigger breakdown: http://www.thearda.com/internationalDat ... _234_2.asp

The point is that Christian is very much the majority religion in this country. And honestly, how much do the minority groups complain about the need to be politically correct? How many Hindu or Buddhist or Taoist groups complain about Christmas Trees? It is my opinion that it is PC Christians who are so concerned about being sued (in American "sue-ciety") for not showing all faiths. The numbers show that if you put a Menorah up, then we actually should put something up for other faiths, since such a huge majority is Christian.

On a side note, I was watching the Hess commercial last night, and I remember years ago that stupid song said: "...for Christmaaaaas this year...the Hess Truck's Here!" Now, there is no mention of the word Christmas. Just to check, watch the holiday commercials and see actually how few ads mention the word "Christmas". You will be surprised in what you see and hear.

Please note I am not bashing one faith or faiths. I am just bored at work.

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Originally Posted by Midnight Mike

What is next Kwanzaa? Wiccans? How about a Voodoo Holiday over Christmas?

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Why not? Why should they limit it to Christmas? What about Festivus, for the rest of us :D :D :D

Government shouldn't be in the business of promoting religion, or religious holidays (actually, it's against the law, you know, that pesky thing we call The Constitution). Some generic, non-secular decorations are fine, but let's leave the rest of it to individuals or religious institutions.

BTW, I was raised Catholic, so it's not like I'm offended by religious displays, just that I'm sensitive enough to the feelings of others to know some are offended by such displays.

Funny a menorah popped up today at LGA by one of the gates..... It is buried in acorner where it is hard to se and it slightly blocked by a sign..... I am pretty right wing but I do not feel like being flamed.

Rabbi gets hate mail over airport Christmas trees
Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:18 PM ET

SEATTLE (Reuters) - A local rabbi is receiving hate mail and angry phone calls after Seattle airport officials took down its Christmas trees in response to his request to include a giant Menorah in the airport's holiday decorations, his lawyer said on Monday.

Seattle-Tacoma International Airport removed its Christmas trees on Saturday after Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky threatened to sue the Port of Seattle, which operates the airport, if it did not include a menorah into its holiday decorations.

The rabbi works on behalf of Chabad-Lubavitch, a branch of Hasidic Judaism and an Orthodox Jewish movement.

The removal of the trees sparked a public outcry over what some say was political correctness run amok and part of a trend to adopt a secular tone toward Christmas.

Harvey Grad, the rabbi's attorney, said it was never Bogomilsky's intention to have the trees removed and the rabbi was "saddened" by the port's decision to remove all holiday decorations instead of including the Menorah for Hanukkah.

"We are not part of the war on Christmas," said Grad. "All we asked for was inclusion and now we're getting hate mail and angry messages."

The Chabad of Greater Seattle asked the airport to put the trees back and will not pursue any legal action even if the airport does not include the menorah into this year's holiday decorations.

In a statement, the Port of Seattle said it removed the trees to avoid litigation with a religious group, which wanted to install the menorah and hold a lighting ceremony.

"The airport is not a traditional public forum and it would not be appropriate for such a ceremony, so we made the decision to remove the trees to allow the airport staff to focus on the busy travel season," the Port said on its Web site.

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Originally Posted by cancidas

WTF!! this is getting to be ridiculous! how much time does that rabbi spend in the airport? why are people so damn scared of doing what they want to do anymore?


i want to buy and island and create my own coutry... who's with me?

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What's that supposed to mean? Am I reading you wrong? Does it mean that since he doesn't spend all 8 nights of Hanukkah at the airport that he shouldn't request that the rest of the people who might be travelling during the holiday be able to enjoy the sight of a menorah? How much time does your priest spend in the airport? How much time do you spend in the airport? How many of those business men travelling do you think are JEWISH!?

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Originally Posted by Mellyrose

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Originally Posted by cancidas

WTF!! this is getting to be ridiculous! how much time does that rabbi spend in the airport? why are people so damn scared of doing what they want to do anymore?


i want to buy and island and create my own coutry... who's with me?

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What's that supposed to mean? Am I reading you wrong? Does it mean that since he doesn't spend all 8 nights of Hanukkah at the airport that he shouldn't request that the rest of the people who might be travelling during the holiday be able to enjoy the sight of a menorah? How much time does your priest spend in the airport? How much time do you spend in the airport? How many of those business men travelling do you think are JEWISH!?

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Well you might notice that in fact a good deal of airports have chapels in them actually giving a hint as to the fact that there is a preist constantly at alot of airports. Actually all airports probably as fire departments alot of times keep one on staff .

I was listening to O'Riely last night and he had the Rabbi on and he said he has no problem with the Christmas Tree's but feels a Menorah should have been put up as well, I do agree with him. As I stated above our country was founded on Jewdeo Christian beliefs and therefore put up a Menorah and put back the Xmas Trees.

The Rabbi even said he would buy one for the airport. The officials at SeaTac made a hip jerk reaction and screwed up BIG TIME. If they were smart which it appears they aren't they'd save face and put the tree's back up along with a Menorah. No reason for the Rabbi to get hate mail like that.

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Originally Posted by hiss srq

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Originally Posted by Mellyrose

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cancidas

WTF!! this is getting to be ridiculous! how much time does that rabbi spend in the airport? why are people so damn scared of doing what they want to do anymore?


i want to buy and island and create my own coutry... who's with me?

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What's that supposed to mean? Am I reading you wrong? Does it mean that since he doesn't spend all 8 nights of Hanukkah at the airport that he shouldn't request that the rest of the people who might be travelling during the holiday be able to enjoy the sight of a menorah? How much time does your priest spend in the airport? How much time do you spend in the airport? How many of those business men travelling do you think are JEWISH!?

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Well you might notice that in fact a good deal of airports have chapels in them actually giving a hint as to the fact that there is a preist constantly at alot of airports. Actually all airports probably as fire departments alot of times keep one on staff .

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Wow hiss, miss my point much?

Well, someone is not telling the truth,.,or possibly the reporter got it wrong??

<<A local rabbi wanted to install an 8-foot menorah and have a public lighting ceremony. He threatened to sue if the menorah wasn’t put up, and gave a two-day deadline to remove the trees.>>

I have no problem with the Menorah going up...at all...But its worth pointing out, we were probably talking about some plastic pine trees, with fabric ornaments of green and red. Yes, its because of CHRISTMAS...but hardly a nativity scene...

If the New York Board of Education can have numerous Jewish Holidays - notwithstanding notions of "The Constitution" and senators continue to get sworn in on bibles (and Korans) I fail to see why the airport can't ...blah blah blah..oh well... All Seatle needs now is to hire BA's Willie Walsh to explain the Airport's decor policy allows plants but has a "no candles" edict and to explain that to the Rabbi.... :) Ho Ho Ho....tis the season..

Tom

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Originally Posted by Midnight Mike

......which wanted to install the menorah and hold
a lighting ceremony.

"The airport is not a traditional public forum and it would not be
appropriate for such a ceremony, so we made the decision to remove the
trees to allow the airport staff to focus on the busy travel season," the
Port said on its Web site.

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This sounds LOGICAL....airport does not want a bunch of people holding a
CEREMONY during the busiest time of the year. I do not think anyone in
their right mind would want to take down all the Christmas trees when
putting a menorah up would solve the issue. The rabbi wanted a
CEREMONY in DECEMBER, in a busy airport. Good decision and next year
put up menorah's with the Christmas tree setups. People stranded
during the holidays would appreciate it.

You're 100% right Derf... It does sound logical.

A bit off topic....Is Seatac run by one of those airport "authorities" or is it directly run by the city or state?

This incident does put me in mind of many occasions since 911 (and a few before) when airport authorities' decisions were seen to be UNquestionable in each and every instance... (i.e.: Massport, Port Authority, etc...) I believe the line of thinking goes -

Its "private" property,
its "their airport" and
"they can do whatever they want".

Funny though, isn't it then, how quickly steps are taken to avoid throwing the dice in court....

Tom

I think that it is a big joke that this is even an issue. The need for a public service is non existant in an airport for somthing like that. Like I said before there is time and place for everything but can you imagine if on Sunday morning at ORD the Catholic church decided they needed to have a service that required a procession through one of the major concorses...... Well same principle there to this menorah and tree at same time great..... menorah tree and lighting service every night.... oye veigh!!! headaches galore!

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Originally Posted by hiss srq

oye veigh!!!

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Is that something like Timothy McVeigh?

We really need to look at this in the larger context... The Port Authority's simple common sense ban on "begging" - an effort to prevent bums, the mentally ill and drug addicts from taking over EWR, JFK and LGA had to go to the Supreme Court in 1992 to get settled and if not for 911 I am sure there would be "activists" out there that would have this matter on their radar even now... Perhaps some do even now..after all, the precincts of the Left consider agressive pan handling to be "free speech".

But of course everyone from Lyndon LaRouche to brain washing kidnapping cults like Hare Krishna's have used airports across the country to carry on their agendas.

People are going to continue to highjack restrooms and attempt to use them as prayer rooms, have pine trees removed and whatever else can be thought of in an effort to assert their agendas. While there is undeniably strength to be gained through "diversity" and every "group" has contributed to America in that respect, there is quite a difference in the "benefits" derived from the balkanization of America under the cover of "multi culturalism".

Tom

WELL - The TREES ARE GOING BACK UP....


SEATAC, Wash. (Dec. 12) - Christmas trees are going back up at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport.

Pat Davis, president of the Port of Seattle commission, which directs airport operations, said late Monday that maintenance staff would restore the 14 plastic holiday trees, festooned with red ribbons and bows, that were removed over the weekend because of a rabbi's complaint that holiday decor did not include a menorah.

Airport managers believed that if they allowed the addition of an 8-foot-tall menorah to the display, as Seattle Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky had requested, they would also have to display symbols of other religions and cultures, which was not something airport workers had time for during the busiest travel season of the year, Airport Director Mark Reis said earlier Monday.

Port officials received word Monday afternoon that Bogomilsky's organization would not file a lawsuit at this time over the placement of a menorah, Davis said in a statement.

"Given that, the holiday trees will be replaced as quickly as possible," he said.

Davis added that the rabbi "never asked us to remove the trees; it was the port's decision based on what we knew at the time."

There were no immediate plans to display a menorah, airport spokesman Bob Parker said, saying restoration of the trees was expected to take place overnight Monday.

A key element in moving forward will be to work with the rabbi and other members of the community to develop a plan for next year's holiday decorations at the airport," the port statement said.

The rabbi has also offered to give the port an electric menorah to display, said his lawyer, Harvey Grad.

"We are not going to be the instrument by which the port holds Christmas hostage," Grad said, emphasizing the rabbi never sought removal of the trees, but addition of the menorah.

The rabbi had received "all kinds of calls and emails," many of them "odious," Grad said, adding he was "trying to figure out how this is consistent with the spirit of Christmas."

Thirteen trees had sat above foyers that lead outside to the airport drive. The largest tree, which Reis estimated to be 15 or 20 feet tall, was placed in a large lobby near baggage claim for international arrivals.

After the removal, some airline workers decorated ticketing counters with their own miniature Christmas trees.

Customer service agents with Frontier Airlines pooled their money Monday morning to buy four 1-foot-high Christmas trees, which they placed on the airline's ticketing counter. Atop a Delta counter, workers put up a tree several feet tall.

The airlines lease space for ticket counters from the airport, and can display trees there if they want, Reis said.


Copyright 2006 The Associated Press.

good on the airlines and good on the airport.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...Picture003.jpg

You know why I'm not surprised by all of this? Becuase SEA is so damned beckwards from the get-go. How about them calling themselves"SEA-TAC" to begin with, as though they are some sort of special forces military base or something. Call it "Seattle-Tacoma", "SEA" or don't call it all at all and stay home.

Even the Rabbi in question doesn't understand why they took down the trees. Dumb fools.

SEA-TAC is a cool name it kind of rolls off the toungue into the mic . ."SEA-TAC". I also think it's easy for foriegn pilots to say, what about SoCal Approach?I love that also, but what would that have to do with anything? :D