JFK - Oct 14

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10-15-2006, 12:07 AM
moose135

JFK - Oct 14

With the nice weather, I headed out to JFK this afternoon. 31L/R was active, and I ended up at Costco. Met up with John Klos and Mike (Bellucciman) over by the water. Shortly after I got there, we were approached by someone carrying a camera, who asked if we were from NYCA. Turns out our visitor was Ian from Southampton, England. He reads NYCA reguarly, but isn't a member. He's in NY for a couple of days, and is heading down to Orlando for the NBAA convention. He wanted to thank us for the excellent spotting maps on the site (he had been at the Marina for LGA 31 shots in the morning), so "Thanks Phil!" He also said he enjoys my Spotter Blotter reports (Klos called me a "Cop Magnet", not sure if I should take that as a complement)

On my way out, I ran into Josh, just down a little way from us, doing a little shooting while waiting to pick up his brother at JFK. Around the other side of Costco, I saw a couple of guys in an SUV taking pictures. I stopped by to say hello, turns out they were also from England, heading to the NBAA, and loved the spotting maps also.

I still have about 400 shots to go through, but here are some from today:

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/102548270-L.jpg

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/102548225-L.jpg

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/102548186-L.jpg

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/102548129-L.jpg

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/102548697-L.jpg

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/102548641-L.jpg

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/102548587-L.jpg

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/102548428-L.jpg

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/102548481-L.jpg

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/102548309-L.jpg

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/102548393-L.jpg
10-15-2006, 01:26 AM
SengaB

John,
Those guys you spoke about ...they pulled right next to me in COstco and blocked my view of the arrivals :) I was like what in the heck. They parked against the stalls and backed up to my car, When I saw camera I knew they probably were not locals as thats just not our M-OF-OP. The white Eldorado had Virginia plates. When they started shooting every JBU that flew past I REALLY knew they were not locals!

Heres my one shot for the day. I think I was at the airport for no more than 30 mins to get the WOA CARGO DC-10 (2:00pm arrival) and then went back home.
http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/woa.jpg
For the guys in the white SUV- I was the guy in the red sports car.
Senga
10-15-2006, 06:51 AM
NIKV69

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengab

they pulled right next to me in COstco and blocked my view of the arrivals

Remember Senga, you can always get out of your car and shoot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengab

as thats just not our M-OF-OP

Hmmm, I am a "local" and never knew about this. What is it exactly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengab

When they started shooting every JBU that flew past I REALLY knew they were not locals!

I was shooting at LAS with Dave Budd once and these guys from France were getting all excited with an Allegiant mad dog would go by. It was funny but remember just as these planes are commonplace for us, to others that have never seen them it's something to shoot. Senga did you at any point think to introduce yourself and ask if they have heard of Phil's site and extend a "locals'" welcome? Maybe help them as to some good incommon traffic etc?

Moose great shots! Glad to see Klos getting out hope to run into you guys soon.
10-15-2006, 07:34 AM
lijk604

It really was a nice day. 4 HASSLE-free hours at Costco! Even with our resident "cop-magnet" Moose. Just kidding Moose, if there was ever a diplomat to have with you during those encounters, you're the guy.

I went out hoping to try Tommy's new spot for the 22 arrivals, but by the time I got there they just switched to the 31's. I saw a guy by the fence taking pics so I parked over by him, turns out it was Bellucciman. I got there just in time to catch the WOA DC10. After a phone call, I went over and said hello, and shortly after Moose and Ian from Southampton, UK dropped by.

The sky was great until about 3pm, and then the clouds became an issue. I have shots of half sun, no sun, and full sun all on the same aircraft! I must admit though, staying until 5pm got me a FDX MD11F with a pretty cool dark cloud background. Of course, as Im packing the camera away PIA's 777-200 comes in, folowed by a BAW 744! Oh well, had to stop some time.

I just started working on my shots, but here are 5 that I chose to edit last night.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2.../N303WLweb.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...MVLnoseweb.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2.../D-AERQweb.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2.../EI-DDHweb.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2.../N578FEweb.jpg
10-15-2006, 10:59 AM
Bellucciman

It was great to meet John, Moose and Ian yesterday! Great conversation and photography! I finally got to photograph a few MD11-DC10's as well. We definately have to meet up again! It was a great way to spend a weekend day off!

I still have to work on improving my editing as well as a steady hand (damn camera shake!). But here's a few from the 2GB that I took.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ciman/MD11.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../FedEXMD11.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...man/FedEx2.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...n/AirIndia.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...man/Iberia.jpg
I had to add another one!
10-15-2006, 11:34 AM
hiss srq

got to love the douglas birds!
10-15-2006, 07:59 PM
SengaB

Nick,
You're right, everyone has different goals and strategies when they go our shooting.

As it happens, I was waiting for a specific subject (aircraft) on that day As I usually do, I was busy monitoring the scanners to make sure I didn't miss it. That was the only reason I was not able to approach anyone else, as it was not a casual trip out for me. As much as I would like to, I cannot introduce myself to everyone every time when I am at the airport, nor am I under any obligation to do so.

Since my fellow photogs were shooting carefree in a "Hot Spot" and being that we were in view of several Costco Customers when the WOA DC-10 landed I felt it was necessary to remove myself from that spot promptly as I did not want to take a chance of having a visit from the Enforcers.

As many know, I have in the past showed many out-of-towners around the NYC airports and am quick to share information about arrivals and airport operations and will continue to do so.

Senga
10-15-2006, 09:40 PM
T-Bird76

Pics look great guys! Wish I could have joined you but I had to get ready to leave, I'm up in Calgary Canada all week. Nice stuff!
10-15-2006, 09:50 PM
SengaB

Lucky you Tommy,
I'm sure you will see some good stuff up there. I'm Pretty Bummed out right now that I missed the Malaysian Air Force G4 that landed at HPN this evening. Right when I stop looking somehting comes in.

Senga
10-15-2006, 10:14 PM
NIKV69

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengab

nor am I under any obligation to do so.

Never said you were, but these spotters weren't under any obligation to follow your so called " M-OF-OP" when they pulled up near you. You could have simply said hello or something and I doubt you would have missed a huge white 3 holer going by.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengab

Since my fellow photogs were shooting carefree in a "Hot Spot" and being that we were in view of several Costco Customers

Ok, reality check here Senga. Anywhere we shoot in public is going to be a hot spot. You know how people are Senga, they will pick up the phone for just about anything. When you say "carefree" do you mean that they were freely shooting aircraft and not sitting in the car and only raising their camera when a plane went by? I prefer carefree, I mean we are doing nothing wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengab

I felt it was necessary to remove myself from that spot promptly as I did not want to take a chance of having a visit from the Enforcers.

Hmm, I'm assuming "enforcers" means law enforcement? Just show them your ID and tell them what you are doing Senga, again you are doing nothing wrong.
10-16-2006, 06:24 AM
PhilDernerJr

Nick,

As for Senga's mentioning "M-OF-OP", I think he said that they weren't acting like the normal spotters and that's how he knew they weren't locals. He never said they were doing anything WRONG, but just how he identified them.

Whether Senga feels a spot is a hotspot or not is his prerogative. He can be concerned about a spot, and opt to leave if he doesn't want to deal with police. That, too, is up to him. There's nothing wrong with his view on that, even though I have voiced that I do disagree with it, he's free to feel the way he does towards police involvement in our hobby.

With that, Senga nor anyone else is under any obligation to say hi to people that he doesn't know. We all practice this hobby a little bit differently, and sometimes people are not in a social mood. Sometimes people come out to relax and just watch planes.

I am the only only one with an actual obligation to introduce myself to new folks, as I've made it my job to do so. If people want to take it upon themselves to promote the hobby, which often happens, then that's great! But there's no "club rule" that Senga is obligated to do that.

If Senga had snubbed or ignored someone that he KNOWS that was right in front of him, then maybe that can be considered rude, but Senga did nothing wrong here, and I think you're taking his comments in a way that he did not mean.
10-16-2006, 10:59 AM
Ania

I would like to go to costco next week, but I do not know how to do it. I came from Poland yesterday and now I am near Boston. Could you give me some advices how to get there without car?

I will be very gratefull

Ania
10-16-2006, 04:44 PM
NIKV69

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil d

As for Senga's mentioning "M-OF-OP", I think he said that they weren't acting like the normal spotters and that's how he knew they weren't locals. He never said they were doing anything WRONG, but just how he identified them.

Actually It was probably the out of town plates? :roll:

Go back and read Sengas post. It's pretty self explanatory, except for the fact he said "our" Method of Operation. I am not sure who he means but I don't believe there is a method of operation in this area or any other area for that matter. To say that is very self serving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil d

I am the only only one with an actual obligation to introduce myself to new folks, as I've made it my job to do so. If people want to take it upon themselves to promote the hobby, which often happens, then that's great! But there's no "club rule" that Senga is obligated to do that.

I went back and read my reply and nowhere does it say I told Senga he had an obligation to get out of his car and be an ambassador for spotting. I merely suggested it as an alternative to the duck in and shoot and split method(Which if look at it, causes more suspicion and police activity than just sitting there and enjoying yourself.) I know everyone has the right to enjoy the hobby in his own way. Never said different. Also you have to remember Phil that this hobby doesn't need to be promoted. It has been around for quite a long time. Long before anet, this site and the internet itself and if it wasn't for 9/11 this wouldn't be an issue, but since it did any area around an airport is going to be subject to police interrogation and will be for a very long time if not forever. Fine, show your ID and be on your way. It's not a big deal. I merely took issue with Senga's use of the word "carefree". The people that chose not to sit in the car and duck and shoot are also enjoying the hobby in their way. Some like myself chose to shoot without worrying who is watching or worrying when the "enforcers" are going to show up. This is not "carefree" It's merely enjoying something we are totally within our rights to do. I also take issue with Senga posting this because someone who is not from here that reads it is going to misconstrue it and may think the spot is unsafe to shoot from which is totally false.
10-16-2006, 05:20 PM
PhilDernerJr

I think it need sto be promoted becuase there are many out there that don't knwo about the hobby and would thoroughly enjoy it. Spreading our passion is a great and fun thing to do. (if you'd like to discuss hobby promotion more, please feel free to start a new thread on the topic in Site Related)

I took your tone towards Senga as saying that he was in the wrong for not approaching the newcomers.

I also took his method of operations as just the normal behavior of the locals....not that locals abide by any rules or anything.

If that's not what you meant, then by all means stnad by your views. Just looked like it was a little aggresive or judgemental to me.
10-16-2006, 07:23 PM
NIKV69

Quote:

Originally Posted by phild

I took your tone towards Senga as saying that he was in the wrong for not approaching the newcomers.

Didn't say he was wrong. Just a suggestion. I took issue with his assesment of their behavior. Like we discussed people shoot in different ways but Senga's words could have easily been mis-understood about the location and law enforcement. If Senga wants to drive in, shoot, and drive away because he doesn't want to run the risk of interaction with law enforcement great. More power to him. If I was a newbie and read that I would thought something different. I still feel Senga was insinuating that "carefree" was something in his words "not our method of ops" I think that comment Senga made in his second reply when he said "were shooting carefree in a "Hot Spot" is irresponsible. Again, this sends the wrong message to newbies IMO.
10-16-2006, 09:19 PM
T-Bird76

Quote:

Originally Posted by SengaB

Lucky you Tommy,
I'm sure you will see some good stuff up there. I'm Pretty Bummed out right now that I missed the Malaysian Air Force G4 that landed at HPN this evening. Right when I stop looking somehting comes in.

Senga

No time for spotting up here with work. Infact when I travel for work the camera stays home. Its just to much to carry with me on a biz trip. Lots of Air Canada up here though.
10-17-2006, 02:54 PM
SengaB

Tommy you have a lot of guts. I would feel so bad if I saw something good and didn't have anyway to shoot it. This happend to me a few times and I still haven't forgiven msyelf for it :) Now, when I am in the area of an airport I always have it with me. I remember when I was at Maxwell AFB in Alabama and I saw the BLACK US Navy F-14 Tomcat that was in some celebratory colors and I had no way to shoot it I keep saying to msyelf "If I only!"
I think this was it.
http://www.airtoaircombat.com/images...lack_large.jpg

The same thing happened to me with the ATA L-1011 in the LTU colors...
Senga