National Air Cargo 744 Crash at Bagram

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Originally Posted by CX777

Isn't usually normal AOA about 18-23' for take-offs? That looks like 35-40' range and the pressure on the loads must be tremendous. What a tragic chain of events. R.I.P. God Bless.

Raj

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I think you're confusing pitch attitude with angle of attack...definitely apples and oranges. The pitch attitude would differ depending on weight--the heavier the airplane the lower the pitch attitude on the initial climb. I know with a light 757-200 and a full-power takeoff, a pitch of 20-25 degrees is not unreasonable. A heavy 757-300 and 10-15 is about right. We don't have a true AOA gauge like a fighter does, but I'm guessing the AOA in both scenarios is about the same, while the pitch attitude is very different.

I'm not familiar enough with the 747 series to tell you what a normal takeoff pitch would be. Also, it sounds like they have a special departure, similar to Orange county (although for high-speed lead abatement, not noise abatement), where they pitch up a little higher than normal.

Forty+ years ago a Navy C-2 stalled and crashed after launching from USS Ranger (CVA-61). Cargo shift was blamed for that accident and if you compare the video with the Bagram crash they're very similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=OlDmMwI9cik

From my time at Bagram I can tell you that the take-off angle I witnessed was steeper than I was used to back home.

yeah,we are always in a hurry to leave, but that had zero to do with what happened.

Just got a bit more information in my inbox today that may or may not be known already. This is unverified:

N949CA Boeing 747-428BCF SN: 25630 LN:960

Prior to the actual crash the crew called cargo shift on the radio. They had 20-40k freight inside on takeoff that at least one piece shifted back with nothing to stop it from crashing into the bulk head. If they had more altitude they could have recovered. An ugly load with an ugly result. May this crew rest in piece.

1. National Flight NCR102 was en route to Dubai from Camp Bastian and had stopped to refuel at Bagram Air Base.
2. The cargo contained within the aircraft was properly loaded and secured, and had passed all necessary inspections prior to departing Camp Bastian.
3. The aircraft landed safely and uneventfully in Bagram.
4. No additional cargo or personnel was added during the stop in Bagram, and the aircraft's cargo was again inspected prior to departure.

Those facts listed have already been verified.

The aircraft had 5 vehicles onboard that weight 28,000 pounds EACH. So even one coming loose and sliding all the way back...ouch.

Such an awful crash, and is the fear of every military charter loadmaster around.

The FAA just released a SAFO (Safety Alert for Operators) advising operators of the potential safety impact of carrying and restraining heavy vehicle and special cargo loads.

While no certain cause has yet been attributed to this crash, it sure is interesting the FAA is all of a sudden concerned about carrying and restraining heavy cargo loads...

If I was able to upload the document (I have it saved on my HD) I would for those interested in reading it, but I don't see a function to be able to do so...

You should be able to upload to Google Drive or DropBox and send a public link