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I know someone with PANY but never felt the need to bother them about shooting on airport property. Fact is if you use your head and pick your spots you can shoot on airport property just fine including inside Terminals. The times I have shot inside I have never gotten a hassle. You got plenty of "de facto" leaders around here. Why haven't they stepped up? What is your plan? You aren't still hanging on the "airport watch" thing are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by moose135
I am going to pus the airport watch idea at airports everywhere, not just NY, and help its implementation, as it's been growing rapidly.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, Nick, but the only thing I don't like is the ulterior motive remark, which is simply a wrong assumption. If that happens, fine, but it's in no part a motive or intent for any aspect of the program at any of its North American airports.
Exactly, no matter how noble intentions are an underlying road is to facilitate access down the road. I mean it's pretty obvious.Quote:
If that happens, fine
No just JFK.Quote:
it's in no part a motive or intent for any aspect of the program at any of its North American airports.
Phil if you are so gung-ho about the airport watch thing why aren't you trying to open a dialogue with PA about their attitude toward terminal photography?
Baby steps! Winning small wars, battles could be won!
I recently came across the so-called FBI and NYPD Terrorism Reference Cards, which identify specific behaviors and what to do if someone appears to be suspicious. Naturally, photography is mentioned. So I'm wondering if the PA uses something similar and that's how the "guidelines" somehow became de-facto anti-photography rules (I mean besides post-9/11 paranoia.)
Naturally, police and security personnel are supposed to question suspicious behavior, but they should also be trained in what really makes for suspicious behavior. I mean, if an A380 pulls up to the gate, shutters are gonna start snapping. That's pretty obvious. But if someone is taking pictures of a spiral staircase inside a vintage terminal and they think it's suspicious, they should just ask. Chances are it's not a terrorist :) But clearly, they don't want to be bothered and would rather just ban it, hence this debate.
By the way, the pigeons over in T3 make for a good diversion. You can follow them around with a camera and no one will care :) Then again, T3 looks so sad and run down no one seemed to care about anything :(
Just curious, have any of you given out a photography business card if you were ever stopped for spotting or photographing? If so, did it help?
Do it all the time... and it diffuses the situation somewhat... at least you're immediately going from being 100% suspicious to maybe 50% if the officer or individual has little to no experience. I find the best are the veterans... they are usually very calm, relaxed and can spot trouble a mile away... nothing beats a beat cop (sic) ... Most police departments today require at least a college degree. In the early years of the NYS Police, you needed to be either a Lawyer or an Accountant or similar to even apply for the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Braniff
I see a lot of private security as nothing more than someone who needs a job.
And please, always use common sense if ever contacted by a police officer... this is always worth watching :tongue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCCjFbFXn8
Manny that's some of the best advice I've ever seen.....fanfreakingtastic!
Many are missing the point here. It's not a question of what is suspicious or what isn't in our opinion or the PA's opinion. Once the call is made they have to run down the call. Check the ID. go through the motions etc. At JFK at any given time they receive an influx of these calls some are photogs are some probably aren't but it's obvious they want to discourage it. Seeing that this is how our lives will be after 9/11 probably forever.
Knowing how to act when confronted is great but has nothing to do with the fact that 99 out of 100 officers in the PA will default to just running you off on airport property, usually with a bad attitude in an attempt to discourage you from doing it again. I don't see this dogma changing on it's own and unless an agreement is reached with them where we can practice our hobby with circumstances that satisfy both sides it's just more of the same.
I've showed business cards, published magazines, and anything out there that can show you are an enthusiast. Wearing a smile also goes a long way. :)
Nick, you're again assuming what I did/are/will do.
No I didn't I simply asked you a question which I will again. Have you ever attempted or been successful with opening a dialogue with PA on the topic of their attitude and rules toward photography. In addition to asking if there was ever a way to photograph inside terminals under certain circumstances without becoming any type of watch program?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil D.
Yes, I have been successful in opening dialogue with various members of PANYNJ about their stance toward photography on airport property in a non-Airport Watch capacity.
Well good luck going forward. Tell them we will be very good and not stand under any landing lights. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil D.
I hand out my card all the time when spotting. It has helped set the tone(along with my demeanor) for conversations I have had to have at many airports, as well as while airborne, and I have never been successfully asked to stop taking pictures because I come across as legitimate and supportive of law enforcement. I have read of instances where people are asked to delete their images; I would never agree to do that.
As a psychologist I'm always mindful of how I am saying something and the effects it can have on the listener. I watch how people approach me and react to the first things I say to them, and adjust what I do accordingly. Most people do this, but not all are aware of which actions work/don't work with different interactional styles and defenses. There will always be the 1% that I can't "schmooze", but as long as it's once in a blue moon it's no big deal to me.
This topic of a "watch group" keeps coming up here. This isn't MSP or ORD. I think that if it were even remotely possible to pull it off at JFK, Phil would have put it together already.
That is such a great video Manny!
Chris Rock is one of the best. Get a white friend LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by seahawks7757