Just keep within the speed limit on the ramp please ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mmedford
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Just keep within the speed limit on the ramp please ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mmedford
Just in all fairness to darlyn, it is entirely possible to call up Port or PAPD and be granted permission to shoot at all "public" areas at EWR... and many have shot there when doing so, or without calling even, for hours at at time with no issues.
The only problem there is the odds really mitigate against "planning" a day there, because it can and probably will, come to an abrupt end very early on... courtesy of PAPD, Newark City Police, Elizabeth City Police, NJ State Troopers, TSA, US Customs Police, Correction Officers, IKEA Security, etc etc..and even immediately after being granted permission by another officer or any of the above named agencies. And, it won't always be pleasant - threats to impound automobile, arrest, confiscation of camera etc... [Not to suggest every individual authority will do that, again, there are plenty of sympathetic folks on all the forces above and the Port Authority as well, but these are real examples on the negative end of the spectrum]
Also, to darlyn's point, its not a radical idea to think one CAN shoot *AT* EWR. Last I knew Port doesn't have a policy against photography - and they're wise in that. They enforce at will, on the fly, at the discretion of whoever is in the field. This puts them in, to date at least, a much more sophisticated and flexible position than zealots and MTA and NJ Transit that found themselves on the losing end of legal challenges. To that end, I really have never understood the servile mentality that obtains in our area with regard to "private" property. I certainly respect law enforcement and I respect "private" property - I don't feel I have a "right" to shoot wherever I want, whenever I want, but neither do I feel its prudent or rational to have photography "banned" ipso facto by fiat or capricious whim at quasi public/private areas.
Lets keep in mind that while on the one hand, Port Authority, (or MassPort or whoever) make the rules (no small matter there, and it is totally reasonable.. they need to run their agencies and administer to the facilities), they were created in large part to do what was necessary to run those facilities, freeing up politicians from doing the "wrong" thing, taking the $$$ off budget of the respective city/state etc. We are not talking about "trespassing" in the same sense as sunbathing at some corporate park or setting up a picnic on someone's lawn.
As for all the received wisdom on spotting locations, and who did what and when, it is all very problematic. Nearly everyone in this hobby at one time or another pushed the envelope. The only spots we're likely to "lose" due to some newbies insistence at being at, are spots that most here would say we shouldn't be at anyway. Case in point.. EWR itself.
Sure it would be nice to think a "spot" is not lost in someone's effort to fleet jetBlue on a rainy day, but as Nick indicated, it can't be stopped.
No "new" spots are being "discovered" apart from adjacent spots, and every year we seem to lose at least one that was at one time "okay" to shoot at. I really have wondered if this hobby, in our area, really "scales up" effectively or not. Can't next month we just come to find out that "Firestone" is private property (which it is) and time for everyone to move on?
Tom
There are few handful of us that have been doing this since 80's. Visiting JFK regularly and following the hobby and spending a day at "Kennedy".Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Turner
In 80's one could just go to roof terrace on famous PanAm and get these shots.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...00side-JFK.jpg
In 90's, it was possible to park car at the fence along the Rockway Blvd and spend a day. And we even had "mounds" off the Blvd.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ckawayBlvd.jpg
If this continues, we'll be taking pics from Calverton VOR for Kennedy approach!
I have travelled to airports over the world for spotting only and I can tell you one universal rule that I have come across. An action of one spotter can and will shut down a spot for good.
Law enforcement will (and should) always have upper hand on any given situation. We can debate the 'rights' however I do not believe a new spotter have neither will power, resiliency, or resources to put up any lengthy legal battle with the law enforcement. And besides to the non-spotting world, this may not be a very legitimate hobby.
There are few spotting groups in Europe and Asia that have made strides and after working with the authorities have been able to provide spotting days (on ramp too!) and make things better for the hobby. However this happens only if everyone is on same page and for the cause. Sorry to point the cliche, there is no "i" in spotting! While it maybe tempting to get that unique shot, no one remembers the top of the day shot on any aviation site from last year. Majority of folks that do this is just to have fun and be around jetliners. And while few have tried, there are very few who ends up making $$ off the hobby to quit their daily jobs.
I feel for the new spotters for their love of hobby and being around jetliners. And I can bet any spotter who has been following hobby over 25+ years will agree to that. But spotting in today's environment is very complex, and one must do with understanding and with responsibility.
Raj
let me guess the DL A310s pic was taken around uhh 1993?
Miss those Air Jamaica buses.
I think I've seen your pictures from JFK before if your name is Rajesh Changela, lol. I'm not a stalker or anything :borat: I've just been looking at pix ever since airliner pictures started to get on the web.
The lack of common sense by some authorities It's pretty sad, and I'm glad I got started a few years before 9-11. With the aviation paranoia (justified or not) these days if one really wants to enjoy getting aircraft shots at large airports without being hassled, one has to go out of the US, far away to places like Europe or Asia. Nowadays, what I do is time the plane I want to get, take my shot and leave. Spotters should use common sense and not be camping out so you are obvious and then kicked out.
Also, if you are sporting a month-old beard, carrying some enormous bazooka lens and standing there in the open aiming it at airplanes, you ain't gonna last too long before the police comes over (trust me)
..or like my friend says, buy a blonde wig
Ah, I guess that's my problem...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayi757
http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/...62_dRVqq-M.jpg
We did have NCPD come check us out at Firestone once because of a report of "15 Arab men taking pictures of airplanes". Even the officer was laughing when he told me that one.
Nice pix Raj!
Believe me, I've been spotting since the 1960s and it is the death of a thousand cuts... much of it happening pre-911.
I guess the point is if a spot is "sensitive" its best not to exploit it senselessly and squander it. And these days, that could be just about any spot.
If its someplace we had no explicit "right" to be, all the more reason not to kill it - and after the fact offer up that well, no one had a right to be there anyway. That's not going to help anyone.
btw, I remember us getting booted off the Pan Am roof on a number of occasions.. but back then, it was a friendly "ok guys, you gotta wrap it up" - :)
Tom
Tom out of curiosity why would you get booted from the rooftop?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Turner
Hey Tommy -
Good Question - I can't say for certain 100% what the reason was, but almost positive it was insurance/liability issues in a general sense. JFK had a number of observation decks just prior (give or take a couple of years) to the advent of the Pan Am Rooftop Parking lot, but of course a parking lot is not by design an "observation deck".
In the big picture there may have been some "security" concerns as people's property (their cars) were there, "hanging out" might lead to other things - getting drunk, littering, urinating whatever, or someone might walk off the roof or otherwise be hit by a car (the more unnecessary people the greater the chance etc..).
On the matter of "aviation security" for lack of a better term, there was an embryonic awareness of how close the aircraft were and what people were up to, ever since the hijackings of the early 1970s, but no one was overly suspicious..people parking their cars were as likely as anyone else to take in the view, and possibly take a snapshot or two. Then, as now, someone with a small child in tow, was deemed especially innocent of any wrongdoing. And again, at the time, just about anyone was allowed to wander the terminals, so it was probably not terribly disconcerting to find people up there.
The security guard rounding up folks was fairly perfunctory - usually it didn't happen at all. I don't recall anyone calling the police; it would probably be seen as an overreaction by all parties. Can't recall anyone pushing back on the security guards, or the security guards being hostile either, but Raj may know the score better on that issue.
AT some point I know the discouragement was fairly passive, but still unmistakable. Hard plastic strips were eventually wound into/through the chain like type fences.
The one thing I can recall that seemed rather aggressive to me was some people - spotters and others as well - would take to climbing up on the roof of the structures that allowed the elevator to go to the rooftop. The notion of doing something like that, taking that sort of liberty, was alien to me, and it certainly could not have made anyone responsible for that rooftop very happy. [I do admit though, that on one occasion the practice had become so common-place, I took my turn as well, not wanting to be the only one silly enough *not* take advantage of it].
That's about the best I can remember of it...apart from the friendly Pan AM 747 pilots that were always happy to give a wave from a stone's throw away.
Tom
:shock:Quote:
Originally Posted by moose135
Quote:
Originally Posted by moose135
:lol: :lol: :D
I remember before 9/11 I saw people with lenses 3 times as big 8) and nobody would get bothered, it was fairly obvious they were taking pictures of airplanes, as spotters were a fairly common sight at most large airports. I never went to JFK before 9/11 but in both Orlando and Miami there were always spotters all around the perimeter, even with 10-foot ladders, scanners, and all kind of necessary geeky spotting accessories right up to the fence. I never, ever got bothered.
Last month I was with a planespotting friend who wanted to take a shot at a LAN 767 with those new ugly winglets posing on the ramp. I said it isn't worth it, not there. But my friend insisted so I parked the car and stayed inside. 2 seconds later a Miami sheriff patrol car on a leisurely Sunday morning mission around the airport parked next to us and asked to see ID. A blonde girl by the fence all excited about taking a pix but hey, he askes to see id. Sure here's our ID. He said pictures are not allowed there, and recommended the Squadron restaurant by perimeter road, so ok, perfect.
Then. he just took at least 15 minutes to check our IDs, something that never happened to me before at MIA as long as I can recall, even after 9/11. 15 minutes that all 3 of us could've done something much more productive with our times, including going to church :D . Then just gave our IDs back and drove away.... not even a goodbye or have a nice day. But again, you dont have to remotely care about been classy or look professional if you are in Miami, I guess.
Moral of the story: well there are many. But mainly, when an area doesn't feel right, it probably isn't.
Quote:
moose135 wrote:
Mayi757 wrote:
Also, if you are sporting a month-old beard, carrying some enormous bazooka lens and standing there in the open aiming it at airplanes, you ain't gonna last too long before the police comes over (trust me)
Ah, I guess that's my problem...
Image
:shock:
moose135 wrote:
We did have NCPD come check us out at Firestone once because of a report of "15 Arab men taking pictures of airplanes". Even the officer was laughing when he told me that one.
:lol: :lol: :D
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that was my first day out at JFK...I'll never forget being called "middle-eastern"!
When the FBI DOJ paid me a visit last year, they said their report was that we were "hiding in the bushes taking pictures of airplanes" at Firestone. I outright laughed at him!
You should have told them you were a hobbit of the shire and you were just walking out of your house.Quote:
Originally Posted by kc2aqg
LOL DEUCE!