U.S. Relaxes Air Travel Restrictions

You all make good points but let us remember this. The EL Al argument is not a good parallel. We all now how vigorous their security measures are. Pax are screened very thoroughly and are checked in many ways both in the open and not in the open. Their planes are guarded around the clock etc etc. Any thing brought on the plane is subject to a vigorous search. We in this country could never implement this for reasons of cost and practicality. The reason the TSA is in place is because they give us some sort of security without disrupting air travel or making it much more expensive. I am not saying I agree with it but take it as it is. As for professionalism, well when we encounter unprofessional gate agents or flight attendants I never hear this much ire towards them here. Sounds like we have an axe to grind with the TSA for some reason. I don't travel as much as Tommy but I have flown plenty in the last few years both domestic and internationally and I have no problem with the TSA. Give them a break, they do the most thankless job for next to nothing in pay. Unless you guys know of a way to have a high level of screening without the cost or time involved I would love to hear it.

I agree with Nick. I think agencies like the TSA is in a tight one figuring out how to balance between maintaining security, practicality and not turning away the travelling public.

Not to mention that these guys have the job of implementing an all-ecompassing airtight screening system throughout the nation in jsut a few years. Tall order.

Thoguh terror has no timeline, more training and honing of procedure should make it a reliable department in the near future.

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Originally Posted by NIKV69

A) We all now how vigorous their security measures are.

B)they give us some sort of security

C) As for professionalism, well when we encounter unprofessional gate agents or flight attendants I never hear this much ire towards them here..

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a) Israel is not the richest country in the world and yes we can improve.


b) There is a comforting thought. "some sort" of security? For the $5 per pax per leg paid, I demand more.


c) If you want to read about that I encourage you to read flyertalk That is where people talk about those issues. As for my experiences, on each and every flight I take, I send in a customer comment card. Every pro or con is mentioned, both positive and negative feedback.

Nick, honestly, I would not mind if jobs were done right. That is the problem.

And if that example that I provided, about the corkscrew, is not a GLARING example of a problem, then I don't know what is. But I will make it easy for you. Insert "box cutter" in place of corkscrew, then draw your own conclusions.


Lastly, if the TSA were doing their job well, perhaps we would not all have similar complaints. But the reality is that the complaints do not all come from one individual. Further, all I can hope is that folks such as EMShighway look for ways to improve, rather than defend their agency.

Nick the problem with the TSA isn't just a few bad apples or a few lapses here are there, its a widespread problem, go read my bullet points again and tell me that is not indicative of a organization with some pretty big problems. Phil you mention they implemented an airtight security system, where, which airport? Swiss cheese has fewer holes in it then our airport and port security. It a few years ago a teenager took a box cutter on board to show how easy it was to get it past the screeners. Why was the GAO able to get items past security 21 times? Answer me that?

Phil they've done a good job with the liquid ban turning away 30% of business travelers. Go read AA's statement on the revenue they lost because of this ban.

I'm sorry but stop sitting here defending this organization, you’re defending an organization that spent 40,000 on doggy boots, and you guys think that is acceptable? I don't. I'm not sitting here bashing them without hard fact, the facts I stated above are serious infractions that have taken place and demand a reasonable and prompt fix. As for being a thankless job, give me a break Nick, I had to but on my hip waders on for that one. No one forced these people to do this job; they get paid like you or me. If they don't like their job they can go find another one.

I personally think TSA could do a much much better job in my experince. The best team I have seen is at DCA. No discrimination, everyone same stuff right through and through unless your ticket has the sssss line across it or howver many it is which denotes prescreening. My badges from SRQ and the other airports I have em for were not good enough ID even with me in uniform either. Still had to go through the same lines and precautions whereas at TPA going through in uniform etc.... barely any security I took my wallet cell and keys out and that was it no verification of anything at all. Where as in BQN last year where I flew in uniform having just finished a trip myself the security at that airport would not let me take a pic of the 727 as I came down the stairs.

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Originally Posted by phil d

Thoguh terror has no timeline, more training and honing of procedure should make it a reliable department in the near future.

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Don't forget funds, you can't demand top notch security personnel and pay them $8 an hour.

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Israel is not the richest country in the world and yes we can improve.

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So what? Read this

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meas ... .security/

There is now way we can have this type of security for air travel for $5 a leg.

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Originally Posted by t-bird76

As for being a thankless job, give me a break Nick, I had to but on my hip waders on for that one. No one forced these people to do this job; they get paid like you or me. If they don't like their job they can go find another one.

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It's not thankless? Tommy climb out of that cubicle and serve the public for a few months like these people do. Spend 8 hours a day getting attitudes and checking peoples shoes and going through people's belongings while at the same time trying to keep our flights safe from terrorism while making $8 bucks an hour. Yea that doesn't sound too thankless to me. Sign me up.

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Originally Posted by t-bird76

Phil they've done a good job with the liquid ban turning away 30% of business travelers.

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I may not be the most seasoned business traveler but what does bringing a liquid on a plane have to do with it? Pick up your shampoo and stuff at your destination. So you can't bring any liquid on board? Who gives a ****? The FA will have plenty of water and soda for you to drink and you get your Listerine and such at your hotel or whatever. They did it for a reason, just comply with it.

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Originally Posted by NIKV69

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Originally Posted by phil d

Thoguh terror has no timeline, more training and honing of procedure should make it a reliable department in the near future.

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Don't forget funds, you can't demand top notch security personnel and pay them $8 an hour.

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Israel is not the richest country in the world and yes we can improve.

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So what? Read this

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meas ... .security/

There is now way we can have this type of security for air travel for $5 a leg.

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Originally Posted by t-bird76

As for being a thankless job, give me a break Nick, I had to but on my hip waders on for that one. No one forced these people to do this job; they get paid like you or me. If they don't like their job they can go find another one.

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It's not thankless? Tommy climb out of that cubicle and serve the public for a few months like these people do. Spend 8 hours a day getting attitudes and checking peoples shoes and going through people's belongings while at the same time trying to keep our flights safe from terrorism while making $8 bucks an hour. Yea that doesn't sound too thankless to me. Sign me up.

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Originally Posted by t-bird76

Phil they've done a good job with the liquid ban turning away 30% of business travelers.

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I may not be the most seasoned business traveler but what does bringing a liquid on a plane have to do with it? Pick up your shampoo and stuff at your destination. So you can't bring any liquid on board? Who gives a ****? The FA will have plenty of water and soda for you to drink and you get your Listerine and such at your hotel or whatever. They did it for a reason, just comply with it.

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Who gives a $hit Nick. The female who has a makeup case in her pocketbook and now has to check it. She gives a $hit when she's going to Chicago only for the day. Nick it may come as surprise to you but business travelers do care, they care a great deal. Why should you have to spend more time in the airport then you do already?

I don't expect you to understand nor do I expect people who don't fly as much as most road warriors do to even to speak about something they are totally unfamiliar with. Let me ask you this Nick when was the last time you got on a plane? The TSA has made it very difficult for many business travelers.

Lastly the airlines care a great deal, do me a favor and go look at the briefs, travel is softening again. This liquid ban cost the airlines tens of millions of dollars.

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Originally Posted by t-bird76

I don't expect you to understand nor do I expect people who don't fly as much as most road warriors do to even to speak about something they are totally unfamiliar with. Let me ask you this Nick when was the last time you got on a plane? The TSA has made it very difficult for many business travelers.

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Tommy just because you fly a lot by no means makes you an expert on traveling more so than anybody else. Your not the only one who travels on busniess, my friends father travels to Japan twice a month and other places and doesn't have any of these issues, this coming from a guy who probably travels 5 times the miles you do. The TSA has a job to do, let them do it. When is the last time I got a plane? Well From June 2002 to Dec 2004 I flew to Brazil 5 times. Vegas 3 times and a few short hops in between that. Not quite your 100,000 miles but pretty close. Do you really think some woman not having her lipstick is a hardship when it comes to safety? Get real. The TSA is not doing anything to biz travelers. They are trying to keep our skies safe any way they can and just because some "road warriors" get inconvenienced doesn't mean a God damn thing. The skies are not reserved for you just because you travel a lot. There are other people that travel Tommy and the TSA or our Government is doing the best they can do to keep them safe as well.

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Originally Posted by "NIKV69

Tommy just because you fly a lot by no means makes you an expert on traveling more so than anybody else.

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So now what, is there a benchmark that Tbird needs in order to be an expert? :roll: C'mon now.


Nick, you are arguing cnn articles whereas I put more weight into the bbc. Perhaps you are happy to settle with what is the current state of affairs, thats fine. But it's ridiculous for you to dismiss the thoughts and opinions of anyone else without having seen the facets of the operations yourself, on a more than infrequent basis.

I'm for paying more if the outcome is better security with quality, qualified workers. Put in iris registration capabilities, the technology has been around for eons. DO what it takes.

But if you are going to sit there and see my specific examples I stated and dismiss them, then clearly you are not arguing for any reason than just to argue.



meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Nick if you want to provide some fact to your statements I'll continue this debate in a civil manner. I've put up some hard facts but you choose to go on in a rant.

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Originally Posted by mirrodie

So now what, is there a benchmark that Tbird needs in order to be an expert? C'mon now.

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Not at all but he is insinuating that just because someone doesn't fly as much as he does their opinion or knowledge means nothing and this is simply not true.

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Originally Posted by mirrodie

Nick, you are arguing cnn articles whereas I put more weight into the bbc.

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You missed the point completely Mario, the CNN article was used to document how EL AL screens it Pax and guards it planes around the clock not to mention the hundreds of other measures they use, none of which can be used in the US. The sheer volume of flights would make this impossible not even mentioning cost. This is why EL AL is not a fair comparison to the TSA. EL AL flies 3 million pax a year. How people fly in the US a year?

It's impossible for that level of security here.

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Originally Posted by t-bird76

Nick if you want to provide some fact to your statements I'll continue this debate in a civil manner. I've put up some hard facts but you choose to go on in a rant.

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Not a rant at all, I am not going to sit here and say the TSA is perfect. That is not the case. I just disagree with the fact that you think they are a total joke. I mean since they have been in existence we haven't had any attacks so they can't be totally useless. If you have an axe to grind for the fact that some woman may be without her lipstick or that some "road warriors" have been inconvenienced well I will say this, at the moment all we have is the TSA between us and a safe flight. So until the improvements you feel are necessary are made by the TSA or a new agency we should be a little more tolerant and cooperative.

not entirely true four letters and one word F.F.D.O. program thats the last defense!

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Originally Posted by hiss srq

not entirely true four letters and one word F.F.D.O. program thats the last defense!

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I am all for arming all pilots. That coupled with the cockpit doors and good screening solves the problem.

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Originally Posted by NIKV69

IT's impossible for that level of security here.

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NIck, I got the point comepletely. So I have to settle for what we have because we have so many flights. Great excuse.

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Originally Posted by INTENSS

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Originally Posted by emshighway

Actually we do get it and if you read some of the reports I have you would probably want more prohibited.

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And that would make the industry 100% safe? It's all just fluff to give the public a warm and fuzzy feeling.

The fact is that flying will never be completely safe and while the TSA does its best to create an environment that appears solid, it isn't even close. They don't have the resources in place to do their jobs most effectively.....funding is inadequate. Until then.....roll the dice.


-Rich

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Not going to be able to answer everything in one post.

Nothing can be 100% safe. Much may appear as smoke and mirrors. The agency is only five years old while other agencies are hundreds. Resources, funding are low while politics and cronyism is high. There are many, many people who try to do the right thing. We shake out heads at some of the procedures also. Some we can understand based on the background we receive.

If you want to play the "let's beat up on the TSA guy" it is easy to get in touch with. Try it face to face.