Re: Questioned at McGuire
Simple question...if you had a camera, why not take pictures of the serial #'s? Then noone can say you were taking "suspicious notes." Lots of folks had cameras there, I'm sure they didn't harass everyone.
Re: Questioned at McGuire
I think it's ridiculous for them to confront you AT AN AIRSHOW. If they feel that you're writing is a threat, then photos would have to be way more threatening. Stupid.
Re: Questioned at McGuire
Quote:
Originally Posted by lijk604
Simple question...if you had a camera, why not take pictures of the serial #'s? Then noone can say you were taking "suspicious notes." Lots of folks had cameras there, I'm sure they didn't harass everyone.
Because I didn't want photos of everything there, only the transport/airliner stuff, but I collect the serials of everything.
It's the first time anyone has ever said anything at an airshow, and I was writing down serials in front of other military personnel, so I guess it was the 2 younger personnel who wanted to be heroes, kind of like the younger TSA trainees who reported me at the inside viewing deck at BWI back in 2003!
Re: Questioned at McGuire
What a bunch of BS...I seriously would have asked to speak to his Commanding Officer.. His comment about you leaving the base is also very threatening... You did nothing wrong that he could have even thought about detaining you.
Re: Questioned at McGuire
I was questioned at McGuire last year also, as was pretty much anyone who took pictures of the static F-22 from more than one angle. It was the standard "who are you and what are you doing interview," but between that experience, and the year before at Dover when I was detained and questioned for over an hour for looking at the row of parked C-5s through binoculars, I'm very skittish when going to airshows now, and I HATE that. I find myself keeping one eye on the show, one eye on the displays, and one eye scanning for undercover OSI goons while furtively scribbling in my notebook. But, no, the terrorists can't be allowed to win.
Re: Questioned at McGuire
What a complete %#&*ing idiot (sorry for the language). I think the MP was on a power trip... for God's sake - I even took about half a dozen pictures of that same E-3 - that same day, as well as on Friday and Saturday - and nobody said anything to me. What is there, externally, on the E-3 that is so classified? The registration? The rotodome? The fact that it's powered by TF-33s? It amazes me sometimes... it's just an AWACS that's (most likely) almost 30 years old and the fact that it's from Elmendorf AFB is just awesome. The "you will be leaving here today" seemed like a threat to me.
End AWACS rant.
I took a picture of an MH-60S Knighthawk at NAS Oceana in 2007... this was when I was getting type, squadron/wing, and registration for my airshow reports. One of the crew members went up to me and asked me - in a real mean demeanor - why I took a picture of the BuNo. I told him "I wanted to know which helicopter I saw." Thankfully nothing else happened out of it... no pictures deleted, no military police cracking down on me like I'm a protester on the wing of an F-22 (yes, that did happen!).
Funny thing about F-22s and F-117s... back when F-117s ruled Holloman AFB and airshows, you were not allowed to take pictures of the rear of the aircraft and not allowed to take pictures of the underside of the aircraft (where the weapons bay is). For the last year of F-117 operations, the rule was relaxed where you could take pictures of the rear of the aircraft, but from at least 20 feet away. You're not allowed to take pictures of the intakes and the rear of the F-22 (I did at McGuire last year - before they got MPs blocking the rear of the jet), but they open up ALL of the weapons bays... "hey we have nothing to hide!"
End rants.
Re: Questioned at McGuire
who was this person? was he AF/ANG or was this an why did you just hand over your id to him and let him walk off with it? me, i would have an issue with the dude standing close enough to reflect in my cameras LCD screen. i can understand the sensativity of certain airplanes, and i can understand the need for people to do as they're ordered to do but there is no need to approach a person in a threathening manner. that only leads to more problems that are unnecessary. i'll stop here, but those who know me well know what i'm talking about. i can't help it, i grew up in brooklyn.
one thing i've learned from FAA inspectors is never to surrender any for of documentation. if asked to present it then do so, especially to an authority. but make a point to SHOW them the id and not GIVE it to anyone. simply hold on to it.
tommy, i doubt that the request to see the guy's CO would go far, if anywhere.
Re: Questioned at McGuire
When you set foot on a military base you set foot on a federal military installation and are subject to random search and questioning. There are signs clearly detailing this. While security measures are certainly loosened for large events (such as airshows) they do not not just simply become null and void.
Bottom line is that you were slightly inconvenienced. Someone saw you doing something a little of out the ordinary, they voiced their concerns, someone checked it out, and you were good to go. I don't really see where the problem lies.
When you're doing something out-of-the ordinary for more than 99% of the general population, you have to expect at least somewhat to be scrutinized and questioned. It's the outcome of the situation that should become the issue. In this case, sounds like other than losing a few minutes of your day, everything went well, and you were FREE to keep on doing whatever it was that you were doing.
I would much rather have someone report something they find suspicious and have the appropriate officials check out the situation and come to a combination of common-sense/legal course-of-action, than to have citizens afraid to report anything because they may hurt someone's feelings or cost someone a few minutes of their day.
As for the cop saying "you've done nothing wrong and you will be leaving here today", I think you all are taking this out of context. To me, it sounds more like "listen man, someone complained, I have to check it out, don't worry though you'll be fine"... He probably could have been a little more "tactful" in his statement though.
Re: Questioned at McGuire
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF Pilot 07
When you set foot on a military base you set foot on a federal military installation and are subject to random search and questioning. There are signs clearly detailing this. While security measures are certainly loosened for large events (such as airshows) they do not not just simply become null and void.
Bottom line is that you were slightly inconvenienced. Someone saw you doing something a little of out the ordinary, they voiced their concerns, someone checked it out, and you were good to go. I don't really see where the problem lies.
When you're doing something out-of-the ordinary for more than 99% of the general population, you have to expect at least somewhat to be scrutinized and questioned. It's the outcome of the situation that should become the issue. In this case, sounds like other than losing a few minutes of your day, everything went well, and you were FREE to keep on doing whatever it was that you were doing.
I would much rather have someone report something they find suspicious and have the appropriate officials check out the situation and come to a combination of common-sense/legal course-of-action, than to have citizens afraid to report anything because they may hurt someone's feelings or cost someone a few minutes of their day.
As for the cop saying "you've done nothing wrong and you will be leaving here today", I think you all are taking this out of context. To me, it sounds more like "listen man, someone complained, I have to check it out, don't worry though you'll be fine"... He probably could have been a little more "tactful" in his statement though.
Agreed
Re: Questioned at McGuire
Its an Airshow with static displays.
People bring cameras.
Sounds like a no-brainer.
Sorry, but my opinion is don't have an Open House if you can't handle it professionally.
Tom
Re: Questioned at McGuire
. He again said, "you've done nothing wrong, and you will be leaving here today, but I have to do my job" He then handed me back my license and tod me to have a good day.
He was right, you would be leaving that day!!! LOL!! You really shouldnt let it bother you. Remember like another poster wrote, you are on a military/govt facility
and subject to their regulations. If that is the most you got hassled so be it. Remember, we are at WAR and under a constant terror alert so just give them a
little slack. Yeah maybe he could have had a better customer service aproach but dont let it make you nuts.
Re: Questioned at McGuire
I can agree, and have always told people to just comply and go with it. But here, I just don't see how having a pen and paper can be considered suspicious. What could someone possibly be writing down or drawing that EVERYONE around them that's taking photos can't get or do? That is what makes it ridiculous.
Approaching someone is fine, but I don't see why it was done in this case.
Re: Questioned at McGuire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Turner
Its an Airshow with static displays.
People bring cameras.
Sounds like a no-brainer.
Sorry, but my opinion is don't have an Open House if you can't handle it professionally.
Tom
People bring cameras and most if not all of them are NOT hassled. Most people don't sit around an airplane recording it's registration and other info about the airplanes and take pictures of it from a million different angles. I understand this can be a foreign concept to many spotters and plane enthusiasts who live and die for airplanes, but take it from a guy who is not much of a "hardcore" spotter, this type of behavior is not exhibited by the average individual. That being said, spotting is not illegal, it can simply appear suspicious to the average individual.
I personally believe the situation was handled very professionally. In fact, I'm not sure how much more professionally this situation could have been handled - unless you believe handling a situation professionally is not to handle one at all. If a law enforcement official is approached by concerned citizens about someone's behavior, I feel they have a duty to check it out, unless said behavior is normal behavior exhibit by mainstream society. Could this security forces member have been a little more tactful? Perhaps, but neither you or I was there to witness the event.
According to this account though, at no point was the security forces member offensive or threatening. He simply asked for ID, asked some simple ID verification questions, reassured the individual involved that he had done NOTHING wrong and let him go. He was not arrested, he was not detained, he was not made fun of, he was not belittled etc.. etc...
My personal opinion is that if you cannot deal with this kind of "scrutiny" might as well never leave the house.
Re: Questioned at McGuire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil D.
I can agree, and have always told people to just comply and go with it. But here, I just don't see how having a pen and paper can be considered suspicious. What could someone possibly be writing down or drawing that EVERYONE around them that's taking photos can't get or do? That is what makes it ridiculous.
I don't know... Neither you nor I was there to witness the event. There was obviously something there that made several people concerned. I doubt the concerned individuals were like "hmm what person from this crowd can we go report as being suspicious so that we can get a good laugh". Thousands of other people there that day were taking pictures - some maybe even taking notes - and were not confronted.
I don't know either of the individuals involved in this account - or if this account is even legit (although I do believe it is). But according to this individual's account, I think the situation was handled promptly, appropriately and professionally.
Let's not forget this story is completely one-sided. We do not, nor will we probably ever have the security forces' side of the story.
Also, the security forces individual could have very easily taken the easy road and escorted this individual back to his car, and ensured he left the base; or worse even held him in the police station on base. Instead, he took the logical, common sense approach to investigate the situation and take appropriate action based on training, experience and common sense. In this case, it was a simple ID check, a few questions and a "have a nice day"....
