The ultimate OJ Simpson thread.
OK since OJ is back in the news and of course he says he didn't do it I propose everyone to give their account of what really happened that fateful night in Brentwood, CA and then provide their own views on the BASED ON EVIDENCE PROVIDED AT TRIAL. I think it is a given he was involved but it couldn't have happened the way the LAPD tried to present. Let's have everyone give their account of what happened that night and what could have been done differently to convict OJ of double murder.
Firstly I feel a second person was involved. I strongly suspect AC Cowlings. He was either with OJ when he happened upon Nicole and Ron at her condo. I feel OJ then assumed Ron was Nicole's latest fling and snapped. Brutally killing both or killing her and Ron having the bad luck of arriving just as the murder happened. Either way I feel Cowlings either helped prevent Ron from helping Nicole or was called by OJ right after to assist. I saw this for two reasons. OJ would have had blood all over his clothes and self after the murder and such a finite amount was found in his truck. Second, the worlds most respected forensic criminalist Henry Lee who testified another set of footprints. Independant of OJs, Nicole's and Ron's was at the scene.
I don't feel the LAPD tried to frame OJ but I do feel they planted and played with evidence to bolster their case. I don't feel the gloves were part of the crime and were planted. I say this 1. I believe this was not premediated and was a rage killing so he would not have planned ahead to wear gloves. 2. During the trial the Prosecutors made a huge error and had OJ try them on and they did not fit. 3. How can someone dispose of the murder weapon immediately so as to never be found (It never has been to this day) yet leave one glove at the scene and drop the second glove in his own backyard? Makes no sense. I think the fact the detectives jumped the fence immediately after reaching OJ's house point to a mindset that OJ was quilty and they had to secure evidence to this.
I believe Cowlings helped OJ by somehow disposing of his clothes right before he flew to Chicago. I am not sure he was with him when he pulled the Bronco up to the house not using the driveway but parking on the side road. Probably in a hurry since one wheel was up on the curb.
I think another point that crippled the prosecution was the fact that Det Van Atter instead of booking a vile of blood taken from OJ into evidence he drove around with it for 2 hours and then took it to Simpson's house. A major mistake from LAPD procedure and had no reasoning. Also Barry Scheck and Peter Nuefeld also presented proof of tampering when they proved blood found on simpsons socks (found at his house) and drops on the gate at Nicole's house (coincidentally found 3 weeks after the murder) contained a preservative used in crime labs. I also bring your attention to the fact that I find it nuts that a murderer who sucessfully disposes of the weapon would leave his bloody socks on the floor in the middle of his bedroom and fly to Chicago.
Basically I think the Prosecution's case was doomed by Henry Lee's testimony. In fact after he examined the crime scene evidence he said to the jury "Only opinion I can give under this circumstance, something is wrong" and provided strong further evidence tampering in addition to Neufeld and Scheck who are also two of the most respected DNA and blood collection experts.
I feel Mark Fuhrman and Van Atter did what they did not out of racism but in an effort to provide an air tight case. So much so they were caught in their actions and thus the doubt raised was enough to raise the reasonable doubt requiring a jury to acquit.
I feel OJ was pulling one of his unannounced pop in visits when he either got into an argument and snapped or found Ron Goldman with Nicole and did the same. He killed Nicole and subsequently Ron in a violent struggle. I feel the gloves were probably property of the person that helped OJ. Mostly used to keep blood evidence off his hands during evidence disposal and were found by the police somewhere else than where the LAPD said they were found. OJ then got in his limo and flew the redeye to Chicago. The LAPD then proceeded to bungle the case in a multitude of ways. Between imcompetence and evidence tampering. When OJ returned from his trip the police at his house immediately cuffed him without arresting him. Realizing their mistake took the cuffs off. At this point OJ got money and his disguise and tried to flee the country. The slow speed chase enused and the rest is history.
What do you think?
Re: The ultimate OJ Simpson thread.
The case was doomed from the start when Garcetti decided not to seek the death penalty. It showed jurors, and the public that Simpson was getting preferential treatment because of his star status and that LA County wasn't serious or committed to see Simpson get a real sentence.. Then you had Ito allowing the court room turn in to a circus. Mark Furhman's lying about never calling anyone "******" or other racist names didn't help, and what is more amazing is that the jurors decided to use Furhman's testimony as a major influence on their decision. The defense saw a few big holes in the prosecutor's strategy and they filled it with their own plaster, quite brilliantly. I'm still shocked that Goldman hasn't attempted to make a gesture of suing the LA County DA's office and Ito for that matter for such blatant incompetence.
Re: The ultimate OJ Simpson thread.
Interesting account Nick.
I am sure the crime was not premeditated. OJ is "not a murderer" (by nature).
I suspect he may have fueled up on cocaine, and unfortunately for him (and more unfortunately for the victims), suffered genuine cocaine psychosis and did the deed.
Kato's role to me never made any sense. Wouldn't there be better gofers? But as a live-in drug procurer he might've been alright.
Not hard for me to believe Simpson might've pulled off the physical challenge of offing two people in short order though. While older at the time of the crime, he was able to distinguish himself amongst not only a country of 200 million or so people to be able to play professional football, he distinguished himself amongst his peers as well in the sport for his abilities.
There was some speculation I remember reading where his lawyer friend disposed of the murder weapon.
In any event, not much time, because OJ had to make his flight. I could easily imagine mistakes being made in what must have been a panicked rush. The theory that he was "set up" always seemed absurd to me most especially because of the flight he had to (and was able) to catch. Perpetrators setting up OJ would've taken an enormous risk *they* don't get the job done in time to prevent OJ from having an air tight alibi. Unless they "control" OJ in some fashion, in which case OJ would know who they are.
It does appear LAPD may have tampered with the evidence, but the trial showed some disturbing things about the country. Inordinate number of folks appeared to be rooting for OJ by virtue of race, and as well, many others/"whites" seemed scandalized that he would get away with *it* (black man murdering his white wife?) ...as if murderers don't walk all the time. Never saw anyone blink in NY when John Gotti was the "teflon don". No sense of outrage the Feds couldn't get the job done.
Tom
Re: The ultimate OJ Simpson thread.
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The case was doomed from the start when Garcetti decided not to seek the death penalty. It showed jurors, and the public that Simpson was getting preferential treatment because of his star status and that LA County wasn't serious or committed to see Simpson get a real sentence
I think your half right, he should have sought the death penalty but in the end I don't feel that effected the outcome. The mistakes lied mostly with the LAPD and not the DA, though he made some. I still feel that the LAPD tried and rushed to collect the "mountain" of evidence so the case would be a slam dunk. I am kind of glad Lee, Nuefeld and Scheck found these things because I feel they did a very bad thing. If they acted professionally in their evidence collection OJ would be rotting in jail and never would got parole.
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Then you had Ito allowing the court room turn in to a circus
Yes he lost control quite early on. The decision to alllow live TV coverage was a horrible one too.
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and what is more amazing is that the jurors decided to use Furhman's testimony as a major influence on their decision.
Actually I think it only effected his credibility. The two key things that killed the case was Henry Lee's testimony and Det Van Atter driving around with OJ's blood and returning to OJ's house with it. When asked they couldn't explain why. That was crucial. The gloves not fitting also. I don't think it's a secret racism exists in the LAPD as well as other jurisdictions but there was clear evidence of tampering and they paid the price.
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I'm still shocked that Goldman hasn't attempted to make a gesture of suing the LA County DA's office and Ito for that matter for such blatant incompetence..
He would have better luck suing the LAPD. From the moment they arrived and began to collect evidence it was the most horrible display of police work.
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Not hard for me to believe Simpson might've pulled off the physical challenge of offing two people in short order though. While older at the time of the crime, he was able to distinguish himself amongst not only a country of 200 million or so people to be able to play professional football, he distinguished himself amongst his peers as well in the sport for his abilities.
Well actually the evidence suggests Nicole was killed alone and Ron happened upon the scene and OJ hid out of sight until Ron knelt by Nicole. Evidence was provided showing Nicole's hair on Ron's garment in the stomach area. Then OJ pounced. I still believe there was another person because I feel Ron would have inflicted more injury to OJ in that violent struggle.
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It does appear LAPD may have tampered with the evidence, but the trial showed some disturbing things about the country. Inordinate number of folks appeared to be rooting for OJ by virtue of race, and as well, many others/"whites" seemed scandalized that he would get away with *it* (black man murdering his white wife?) ...as if murderers don't walk all the time. Never saw anyone blink in NY when John Gotti was the "teflon don". No sense of outrage the Feds couldn't get the job done.
Yes that was bad to see. I mean black juries convict black people all the time and white juries convict white as well. The folks rooting for OJ strictly did it without looking at the evidence. Very sad.
Re: The ultimate OJ Simpson thread.
If I remember correctly (and correct me if I'm wrong) the blood was collected for DNA evidence. Too see whose blood was whose. The defense argument was that the police mishandled the blood and therefore the DNA could be anyone's. I don't believe that any proof or even a suggestion of switching DNA/blood was made by the defense, only that it was being driven around. If this is the case, and remember I'm going by a faulty memory, the DA should have hammered it home to the jury that blood, or any fluid containing DNA can exist in a dry state for years and still give a positive match. That yes the detectives were careless in their impromptu chauffeuring of the blood, non the less blood is blood and it doesn't change whose oner it is by virtue of time. As far as me suggesting the lawsuit, yes maybe the LAPD could have been brought to account, but in all fairness except for Furhman lying on the stand about racial epithets it would have been very hard to prove that they sabotaged the case, The DA and Judiciary however is a different story. Like I said I believe they had an obligation to pursue the death penalty, Judge Ito's handling of the case, the tv coverage being his least offense and Garcetti's tying the hands of Marcia Clark and Chris Darden, who I believe was so hamstrung that he made the "glove" decision out of frustration. I believe it would have been a symbolic lawsuit anyway. I'm pretty sure all 50 states have laws that protect judges from lawsuits deeming from trial.
Re: The ultimate OJ Simpson thread.
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If I remember correctly (and correct me if I'm wrong) the blood was collected for DNA evidence. Too see whose blood was whose. The defense argument was that the police mishandled the blood and therefore the DNA could be anyone's. I don't believe that any proof or even a suggestion of switching DNA/blood was made by the defense, only that it was being driven around. If this is the case, and remember I'm going by a faulty memory, the DA should have hammered it home to the jury that blood, or any fluid containing DNA can exist in a dry state for years and still give a positive match
That is not in dispute. The defense raised enough doubt with the handling of the blood, the fact that blood found on the socks and the back gate at Nicole's condo contained a preservative only found in DNA labs. The defense proved that it happened by the vile of blood taken from OJ by the LAPD spilled in the lab and was contaminated.
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Garcetti's tying the hands of Marcia Clark and Chris Darden, who I believe was so hamstrung that he made the "glove" decision out of frustration
Def, the Prosecution thought they would coast on the DNA evidence and did make errors when they realized they were up against good lawyers.
Re: The ultimate OJ Simpson thread.
In reference to several posts made in this thread, this topic is a valid one. Though many people might be sick of OJ and such in general, there's no problem with it being here. This type of discussion is what the Off-Topic forum is for, should people want to discuss it, and we can see it is interesting to several others who have replied.
Because of that, I've deleted the off-topic posts in the thread, and deleted a part of one of Nick's posts that addressed it.
If you don't like this thread, please ignore it. If you have questions, reply to ME in PM only.
I'll let you folks get back to the discussion now.
Re: The ultimate OJ Simpson thread.
OJ was arrested this morning at 11:00 in Vegas for the armed robbery. Once a perp, always a perp.
Re: The ultimate OJ Simpson thread.
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it would have been very hard to prove that they sabotaged the case
To further address your point from the last reply I implore you to read all of Henry Lee's testimony. He and Barry Scheck raised the following points.
1. Detective Van Atter driving around for 2 hours with a stop at OJ's house.
2. Blood collected on the back gate of Nicole's house was found 3 weeks after the first CSI.
3. The blood on the gate and blood found on the socks at OJ's house contained contained EDTA (A preservative only used in crime labs)
4. The person who drew Simpsons blood said he drew 8 ml of it. After Van Atter had unsupervised time with it there was only 6.5ml.
5. Henry Lee proved that a wet transfer stain collected at the scene could not have been a wet transfer stain that long after the murder.
After you follow all of Lee's, Nuefelds and Schecks testimony it's clear the LAPD tampered and planted evidence.
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OJ was arrested this morning at 11:00 in Vegas for the armed robbery. Once a perp, always a perp.
Yep. You can't go into a hotel room with thugs pulling guns. He has some issues.
