Airlines urge FAA to delay private jets

Airlines urge FAA to delay private jets

The leading U.S. airlines urged the Federal Aviation Administration yesterday to impose delays on flights by corporate and private jets to help relieve the congestion at New York airports over the Fourth of July holiday.

Delays that stem from congestion in New York can have ripple effects throughout the nation, particularly along the East Coast.

The Air Transport Association, which represents AMR's American Airlines and UAL's United, said private planes landing in smaller New York regional airports aren't necessarily subjected to the same delays that bedevil commercial flights into New York's John F. Kennedy and LaGuardia airports.

That view was strongly disputed by the National Business Aviation Association, which represents 8,000 companies and other operators of private aircraft.

"The FAA is not playing favorites," said Steve Brown, a senior vice president at NBAA. The agency does delay private flights due to heavy air traffic or threatening weather, he said.

In addition, private jets aren't the cause of late commercial flights, he added. The primary culprits are weather, shortages of flight crews and other factors, he said.

The ATA's complaint comes as New York City airports have had a very difficult time with delayed and canceled flights this year.

Between January and April, 38 percent of all flights at Newark Liberty, Kennedy and LaGuardia were either late or canceled, according to federal statistics.

James May, the ATA's chief executive, said New York City's airspace "is completely saturated and near gridlock."

More than one-third of all air traffic delays in the country June 28 were in New York City airspace, May said. Other ATA members include Southwest Airlines, Continental Airlines and Delta Air Lines.

Laura Brown, a spokeswoman for the FAA, said the agency would consider the ATA's proposal, "but there are a bunch of things we're doing to relieve air congestion" in the New York City area.

The agency is in the process of redesigning flight routes in the region in order to relieve congestion, Brown said.

In addition, the agency is also implementing new software that will reduce the number of flights delayed or redirected by bad weather, she said. The software will more accurately target planes that are heading toward bad weather, she said, and will be used for both private and commercial flights.

The airlines and FAA, meanwhile, are pushing Congress to authorize a multibillion- dollar upgrade of the nation's air traffic control system. The system still uses analog radar technology from the 1950s, according to ATA spokeswoman Victoria Day.

A modern replacement would use global-positioning satellites to more accurately coordinate traffic, allowing aircraft to fly closer together.

That ATA is really going to love when Microjets come on the scene aren't they?

Maybe its time for congestion pricing? :)

Or - maybe airline frequencies/regional jets should be cut back? AMR could help things out by cutting back starting tomorrow.

It will be interesting to see an upgrade in the ATC as well how redirecting the flight routes will go.

T

I think as more private aircraft emerge, we'll see higher landing fees for them regardless of their low weight.

I foudn it funny how they used June 28 as an examplefor NYC's delays. I don't know what was going on that day, but any part of the country that faces severe weather can account for or cause a bulk of the nation's delays. The fact would have have more effect if they used a more broad time range.

Of all the things that go on at an airport, at least of the factors that can control delays, I'm surprised to see these guys actually go after bizjets.

It's just another way for the "big" airlines to use private travel as an excuse for the delays. Even though it is the "big" airlines who are contributing the most. How many biz-jets do you see at LGA/JFK/EWR a day vs. the number of say...REGIONAL JETS? If you got rid of the RJ's at LGA there would not be any delays.

Now, having said that, I am not stupid, without the RJ's the mainline carriers would not have enough passengers to fill their aircraft, and those fine folks in Lancaster PA would have no real way of getting to Chicago, Dallas, Denver or Las Vegas. But let's be realistic here, does LGA need 4 Air Canada flights to Montreal per day PLUS another 3 or 4 American Eagle flights? Probably not. I use that as 1 example, but I am sure there are plenty out there where if 1 or 2 flights a day for each "saturated" city par were eliminated, that would make a world of difference.

Using RJ's to shuttle pax between hub's is what's killing the system. How many times a day does a NW commuter fly DTW-MSP? How about UA commuted flying IAD-ORD or ORD-DEN or LAX-SFO? Heck if it weren't for Delta's commuter fleet CVG would have only a few flights per day.

The decision makers hopefully will SEE that yes, TEB & VNY are busy airports, but, in the grand scheme of things, RJ traffic is what's clogging up the national ATC system.

If our government really wanted to solve the overtaxed airport situation, they'd be looking at replacing a lot of RJ routes with high-speed rail. Even our currently-existing lame excuse for high-speed rail can keep up with airplanes on routes shorter than 200 miles, and it's far more fuel-efficient. If it were properly maintained, it could even be profitable. If there were more direct rail-airport connections (like at BWI and EWR), the rails could alleviate quite a bit of congestion in the northeast.

(And I probably shouldn't say things like that on an aviation forum, but oh well :) )

private a/c at big airports aren't the real issue. i can't speak of the rest of the country, but at LGA when they taxi out from 5 towers they sit in the line like any other departure. in all honesty, they are a rare bunch at LGA due to the surcharge on the landing fees during peak times. and we also have TEB, FRG and HPN in close viscinity to the city that handle much of the traffic. the airlines are just being fgreedy again IMO...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lijk604

How many times a day does a NW commuter fly DTW-MSP?

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1, only 1 using RJ aircraft. FLG2831, the rest are mainline, and alltogether there are 18 flights DTW-MSP

Breakdown:
757-300: 1
757-200: 3
DC-9-50: 5
DC-9-40: 1
A320: 7
CRJ-200: 1

But see, DTW can handle all the traffic, and MSP can too I believe. DTW has 4 parallels, I have never seen any ground delays not linked to weather other than the Super Bowl due to large amounts of private aircraft.

I support reopening FLU for biz jets. :D

I think they are complaining about airway congestion, not so much the local airports' slot. All aircraft are held at departing airport due to airway sequencing in the NY center area when the weather is bed, they don't want bunch aircraft diverting or declare low fuel due to the congestion when they all arrive the same time weather is clearing up. You can only stack so much aircraft over NYC. The business aviation sector have been growing at a unprecedented pace and the current ATC facilities\systems just can't handle more flights.

High speed rail would be great, but do you see any space in the NYC area for more rail terminals? or space to build new rail line? Both Penn and Grand Central are at max capacity handling what they have today, I doubted anyone will suggest bring in more rail cars in there. As for too many flights to\from certain airports, I can't speak how profitable airline are operating those flights, I can only guess they are not stupid to continue operating multiple flights if the load factor does not support those flights.

I think they should have some sort of navigation\airway charges for all traffic to pay for a long needed better ATC system in the US. US tax payers are paying for ATC services foreign airlines are using everyday, while we pay to fly over their airspace. Better ATC system will allow more aircraft to be in the same airspace and provide an efficient way to relief some of the congestion we have today.

There's an article in AA's in-flight magazine, by I believe the CEO about ATC delays linked to private bizjets and the like. He is very anti-bizjet and flat out states that it's their fault most of the time for causing delays, which costs airlines and ultimately the consumers more money...