http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/07/graffi ... index.html
Anyone know more specifically where this was?
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http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/07/graffi ... index.html
Anyone know more specifically where this was?
I heard from friends that this was at Woodside.
Woodsiiiiiiiiide. LIRR I assume then? (maybe 7 train)
I hate how articles try to make it sound like vandilism is ok because of what the person is drawing on it. Though 9/11 and other memorial stuff is nice, its appropriateness on that whatever medium is subjective, and should be at the discretion of the property's owner.
From my favorite newspaper:
Crews work to close gaps in LIRR fencing
BY ANDREW STRICKLER
Newsday Staff Writer
January 6, 2007, 9:57 PM EST
MTA workers labored Saturday night to patch dilapidated fences near the Long Island Rail Road tracks in Queens where a teenage boy was struck by a train and killed, an area about which residents and businesspeople say they have complained repeatedly to the city and the LIRR because of easy access to the tracks.
The workers, wearing orange vests with the logo of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and LIRR, used metal clamps to close a gaping 6-foot-wide hole in a chain-link fence adjacent to the tracks near 63rd Drive in Rego Park. They used boards to repair a wooden fence that was missing several slats.
MTA police said they were investigating the accident, in which Ari Kraft, 13, was killed at 5:40 p.m. Friday when he was struck by an eastbound train.
From accounts given by friends, Kraft and at least one other boy were believed to be out spraying graffiti with their "tags," or nicknames, on railroad signal boxes when the accident occurred.
Vito Banca, 40, the owner of nearby Tony's Pizza, said he has called the LIRR to complain numerous times during the two decades he has run the business. "It's always been open. It's a regular hangout," said Banca, who said he had served pizza to Kraft and his friends over the years. "Rarely do you see the cops check." Banca said he frequently spots people walking in and out of the breaks in the fences near the 63rd Drive overpass. There are at least a half-dozen points of ready access, including the spots being repaired last night.
Councilman John Liu (D-Flushing), who heads the City Council's Transportation Committee, had harsh criticism Saturday night for the LIRR and described access to the tracks as part of a "wider problem" regarding maintenance, gaps between platforms and trains and aged infrastructure. "It's somewhat shocking how easy it is for kids to get on the tracks," Liu said. "Ensuring the track is not easily accessible is a responsibility that falls squarely on the LIRR."
LIRR officials said Saturday they were interviewing potential witnesses to the accident and waiting on speed and other data downloaded from the computer of the train. They said they also were reviewing how Kraft got on the tracks. "We are attempting to make a determination right now what the access point was," said Kevin McConville, chief of the MTA police. McConville said the investigation would include a review of complaints and citations of trespassing and graffiti. "Our initial results don't indicate much activity in this area," McConville said.
In 2006, 17 pedestrians were killed when they were struck by LIRR trains, spokeswoman Susan McGowan said. Most of the fatalities were suicides, and most of those killed were adults, she said.
Ava Barzvi, 37, the founder of Rego Park Group, a community organization, said she and other members have complained to city officials about graffiti and trespassing around the rail line, to no avail. "There's always people back there, not only kids, but adults," she said. "Myself and a lot of other people call 311 and nothing seems to happen. The fence is always broken."
LIRR officials said the system's more than 700 miles of track are bound in part by a combination of LIRR and privately owned fences and walls. Officials said they had not determined who owned the fences near the spot where Friday's accident occurred. McConville said finding unauthorized people in dangerous areas was "not uncommon."
"It's not realistic to believe that the railroad can install a system that is fully human-proof," he said.
The original article that you linked to specified that it was a LIRR train that struck him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil D.
Oh come on Phil you don't know the political correct term for a vandal who spray paints public property is a Graffiti artist? I thought everyone knew that?? You know this story is going to get twisted around and the LIRR will be blamed for his death because of the hole in the fence. When as anyone with a third grade education can figure out what he was doing was illegal and he shouldn't have been where he was. I'm sorry for the loss to his family but you play with the bull you get the horns.
I agree with you 100% Tommy.
And, its not meant to be harsh or overly judgemental of this person; Probably you or I or most folks might have been seriously hurt or killed at some point in our lives for doing something stupid, or taking a risk or breaking some law etc etc..and thankfully we were not - maybe just by dumb luck.
But this notion too many people have of "they" (govt, MTA, LIRR, elevator manufacturers, bar tenders, child welfare workers, etc. etc etc...) of not doing a perfect job (or sometimes not a good job) of somehow 100% controlling other human beings from doing something completely irresponsible is simply repellent.
A fence is a nice thing to have -- but they're scaled, cut through, pushed over all the time and put back at great expense. Thousands of miles of track across the USA does not have *any* "fence". In fact, anyone can walk into any tunnel and on any tracks in the subway system at any station in New York City at just about any time they want 24/7.
Perhaps the concerned citizens coming out of the woodwork now could've put up their own fence... of course they might've been fined or arrested for doing so, but thats another story..
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bird76
While I'm not excusing the actions this kid took, according to the reports, the LIRR has been notified numerous times about the damaged fencing. Sounds like this could fall under the "attractive nuisance doctrine", which is the same reason a private homeowner is required to have a fence around a backyard swimming pool.
From http://insurance.cch.com/Rupps/attracti ... ctrine.htm
Quote:
There is normally no particular care required of property owners to safeguard trespassers from harm, but an attractive nuisance is an exception. An attractive nuisance is any inherently hazardous object or condition of property that can be expected to attract children to investigate or play (for example, construction sites and discarded large appliances). The doctrine imposes upon the property owner either the duty to take precautions that are reasonable in light of the normal behavior of young children--a much higher degree of care than required toward adults--or the same care as that owed to "invitees"--a higher standard than required toward uninvited, casual visitors (licensees).
You're right Tom, if those concerned citizens had tried to put up a fence themselves, they would have run afoul of the law. They did what was expected - they reported the problem, and waited for the appropriate authorities to act to maintain the fence, which the MTA is now doing. It's a little like the FAA, wait until people die, then fix the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Turner
Next to the diner on 63rd Drive near the overpass is a road with a gate that leads to the LIRR tracks. About 10 years ago there was a derailment there when someone put piping on the tracks.
I don't remember that gate even being locked. The area has chain link fence, the only wood fence is really just the snow barrier stuff then put around to prevent drifts. That stuff you can just step over.
UPI: Boy killed on New York train tracks
Yes, the accident was preventable. It would have prevented if the kid didn't trespass with the intent of vandalism. I don't feel sorry for at for people who end up killed because they did something stupid, and a hole in a fence doesn't excuse anyone's conscious choice go through it. The fence is there for a reason, and the fact there may be a hole in it doesn't change that, whether you're 13, 30, or 300. And it's a damn shame that our society has come to the point that, if someone dies doing something stupid, that they almost certianly know to be a risk, it's the fault of another party because they didn't take action to stop that person from doing it. Why not sue god, because he could prevented the accident if he'd reached down and plucked the kid out? It really pisses me off that so many people these days are unwilling to put responsibility where it really lies, and in this case, it lies 100% with the kid and not the railroad.Quote:
The family of a New York teen hit by a train while spraying graffiti plans to sue the Metropolitan Transit Authority, claiming the accident was preventable.
What a bunch of crap.
Reminds me of the kids that snuck into the Bear enclosure at the Brooklyn Prospect Park zoo (now closed of course) in the middle of the night.....with predictable results.
There's a reason you hardly see any deep public pools anymore, fewer amusement parks, slides or swings or jungle jims in city parks, can't so much as throw a spaldeen on a New York beach etc....
People want to be paid for their tragedies now...
Tom
There are few groups more abhorrent to me than vandals, and there are few stories that make me more frustrated than ones involving someone getting hurt or killed while doing something extraordinarily stupid, and then blaming others for it.
The parents have already hired a lawyer and said they're going to sue the city and the MTA. Local pols, like John Liu, have already come out on the side of the criminal (victim) and blamed the MTA for not keeping the fence in good repair while, along with the media, ignoring the fact that he was committing a crime.
As far as the "attractive nuisance doctrine" goes, I would argue that one cannot equate the attraction of a blank wall to a kid holding spray paint with a swimming pool or construction equipment. If Mr. Kraft had entered the tracks because he thought trains are cool and he wanted to get a better view, then yes, perhaps they would have a case. But he was on the property expressly for the purpose of committing a crime -- painting graffiti.
Unfortunately, I don't have any faith in New York City jurors, who are usually very quick to give the government's money away without connecting the dots between that money and their pockets. This is the same jury pool which awarded 14 million of our tax dollars to a woman who attempted to kill herself by walking down a darkened subway tunnel, but failed. After losing only her legs, she claimed she had actually changed her mind, and was on her way back to the station, and that the MTA and the city had not properly secured the tracks to prevent her from being on them. $14 million. Yep.